44 thoughts on “POTUS and Indictment

  1. This is not a question of constitutional or statutory law. Rather, it is simply an arbitrary internal policy within the Department of Justice. The policy has never been adjudicated, and it effectively prohibits the nation’s highest law enforcement agency from indicting and prosecuting a sitting U.S. president while also unconstitutionally placing such individuals above the rule of law. From the article:

    LACOVARA: The Justice Department has taken the position twice that the president is not subject to indictment while in office and that no criminal charges can proceed against him unless he’s either removed from office by impeachment or has served out his term.

    CHANG: And just to be clear, as a constitutional matter, it’s still unresolved whether a sitting president can be indicted, right? This is just a choice the Justice Department made.

    LACOVARA: That’s right. In the Watergate investigation, we examined that issue quite carefully and reached the conclusion that there is no constitutional bar to indicting a sitting president. It’s a matter of discretion whether to file such charges. But the issue is still unresolved because, neither in Watergate, nor in the Clinton years, did any prosecutors press the issue.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. However, one can (and probably should) think a wee bit harder about impeachment. It may be time. I know the Dems are tossing the Impeachment basketball around, but they have yet to do anything with it. Oh, please…

    Like

    • The problem is that once Trump is impeached, removal from office requires a two-thirds vote in the Senate, which means at least 20 Republicans there would have to vote to remove him. Which at the moment would not be forthcoming, because they are cowards and are afraid of the heavily-armed knuckle-dragging Deliverance mutants making up his “base”. Until that changes, impeachment is not worth trying. An impeachment that failed to remove him would leave him claiming vindication and stronger than before.

      The hope was that the Mueller report would produce such strong evidence of criminality that it would turn even much of his base against him, freeing Senate Republicans to vote for removal so impeachment could succeed. At the moment, it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. We have to hope that one of the other investigations will produce something that shifts public opinion, or that some entity other than the Justice Department (such as the SDNY) can indict him.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Not only all you said … but what a fiasco such an event would generate! And can you imagine what it would be like if, as you said, the impeachment failed??

        Yes, I think we have to pin our hopes on New York … and trust it will finally bring about the results we are all “praying” for.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I consider Trump far more dangerous than Pence. Not domestically, but overseas, where the stakes are highest. Pence is at least a fairly normal politician, not a raging infantile sociopath and narcissist like Trump. We have a responsibility to the rest of the world to get Trump’s finger off the nuclear trigger. That’s more important than what happens inside the country. Millions of lives could be at stake.

          Pence would be an awful President, but he’s not as popular with the Christian Right as you might think. They regard him as a weakling for caving so quickly when economic pressure was brought against Indiana’s anti-gay law when he was Governor. He might, at least, be less assertive as President than we imagine.

          In any case, depending on what the Mueller report actually says (remember, we don’t know yet) and what, if anything, Trump gets indicted for, Pence might be implicated as well. There’s a remote chance we could be rid of both of them.

          Like

        • There’s a remote chance we could be rid of both of them. — I might even consider taking up praying if this looked like an actual possibility!!

          With all that he’s saying and doing since his self-imposed vindication, your concern about “the button” does create some anxiety. I guess all we can do is trust that someone in his administration will demonstrate good sense and lock him in the bathroom.

          Like

        • oh don’t toy with me. at least, in all his awfulness, Trump is right out there with it, totally oblivious and uncaring about the damage he creates. Pence is oily. He has the look of a speculative snake…

          Liked by 1 person

  3. This is not a quote: All humans are created equal. Therefore either all humans are subject to all laws, or no humans are subject to any law. The POTUS was born subject to all laws. He has no claim to immunity. If he does, he assigns immunity to all others. This is what justice means.
    Unfortunately justice is meaningless in the USofA. We see that every day. Those wno have, can. Those who do not have, cannot. This sitting president will not be indicted. Just another sad commentary on the state of the world today.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. Just now from CNN:

    Attorney General William Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein decided the evidence was “not sufficient” to support a prosecution of the President for obstruction of justice.

    “While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him,” Barr quotes special counsel Robert Mueller as saying.

    Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said the evidence gathered in the special counsel’s investigation was “not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense,” Barr wrote.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Liked by 3 people

  5. Hello Nan. I would love to offer something useful, but what needs to be said has already been said. I would only add that even without an impeachment vote in the house, the continuing investigation will hurt tRump and crew. Plus I think our real address for the harm tRump has done to the country will be in the state courts for his graft, and in pursuing his criminal financial ties. I know and there is video to prove it that he had known mobsters at Mar-a-Lago and he had them in his tRump organization as one even had business cards from the organization he passed out. If I know it then prosecutors do. Nothing will happen in Florida to him as long as there are republican Governors and legislature but those are ending soon. What tore me up this morning was watching republican congressmen sidestep questions and spew how great tRump was and how much he has done while at the same time faulting Hillary and democrats. I was yelling at the TV, and it was Orwellian what they were doing. Hugs

    Liked by 1 person

    • Also this morning they kept demanding an investigation into the Fusion GPS / Steele Dossier claiming it was all a democratic political document without anyone reminding them that the republican candidates ( from what I can find out Jeb Bush lead the effort ) during the primary were the ones who went to Fusion GPS and paid them to do oppo research into tRump. After the nomination Fusion GPS approached Hillary’s campaign to continue the oppo research.

      Like

  6. Latest update:

    White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said the Department of Justice findings “are a total and complete exoneration of the President of the United States.”

    *Barf*

    Liked by 2 people

  7. I’m not particularly surprised at what I see in the summary.

    Mueller has done a pretty good job, as shown by the many indictments over the period of his investigation.

    In the end, he bunted. But I always expected that. It is DoJ policy to not indict a president. Any such act would be seen as political. So Mueller left that to congress and the voters. And that’s where it belongs.

    The future of this nation is probably up to us as voters.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I think you’ve nailed it. The worst part, however, is all the “I told you so” that we’ll have to put up with. At least until the New York district case turns things around.

      Liked by 2 people

  8. Barr notes the “absence of such evidence” related to crimes around the Russian election interference, weighed on his decision regarding obstruction.

    This validates what I’ve been saying for quite awhile — much of the “stuff” that was going on was behind the scenes. Any “evidence” was either destroyed or was never in a format that could be investigated.

    I DREAD all the crap that will be (and already is) coming from the Repugs related to tRumpsky’s “innocence.”

    Liked by 1 person

  9. From the CNN updates:

    Mueller did not have sufficient evidence to prosecute obstruction of justice, Barr wrote, but he did not exonerate the President.

    The President went beyond the conclusions of Barr’s letter and said the findings exonerated him.

    Re: the latter … what else did we expect?

    Liked by 2 people

  10. The whole thing makes me sick..

    6 more years of trump and where will we as a country, a democracy, and a lessening of more regulations against polluting, more homophobia, more Christianity in public schools, state houses and laws, more corruption, more white nationalism, more voter suppression, more division, more tax breaks for the rich…..ad infinitum.

    The only thing that will clean house now is serious climate change.

    Liked by 3 people

      • Absolutely Mak! And the chances of that unified and well coordinated opposition? Unfortunately, from my perspective, not very good.

        I’ve only been paying attention to the political scene since Obama … and even during his terms, my interest was pretty lukewarm. When tRumpsky won, it all changed.

        With these latest developments — and his usual “coloring” of the facts that his supporters will take as truth — I’m truly concerned about where things are headed. As of right now, I don’t think the Democrats have enough of a unified front to take him on. Plus, IMO, I think they dwell too much on issues that are hardcore liberal … and not all in the party want that.

        Anyway … I’ve said my piece. For now.

        Time will tell.

        Liked by 1 person

        • DON’T … I repeat … DON’T ever say that again!!! Lordy be … it’s raises my blood pressure to even read those words, let alone consider the possibility!

          YIKES!

          Liked by 1 person

        • he would have to change the laws, which now say that no president can serve more than two consecutive terms in office. Possibly only two terms, ever. Ropsevelt died in the middle of his fourth term, and if he had lived could very well have had a fifth.

          Like

    • i don’t know, there’s 17 months or so before the 2020 elections. A lot can happen, and I doubt this will change anyone’s vote for or against Trump. We’ll see. This stinks, but it isn’t like Trump’s not facing criminal investigations on several other matters. Also he has plenty of time to drop a nuke on someone or some country. We’ll see, but 6 more years of this and the country and democracy are finished. One could argue our democracy is already on its last legs.

      Liked by 3 people

  11. He’d have to do some really obvious and serious damage in the next two years to change things to favor the Dems. Oh let’s see…obvious and serious…think that’s already been done.😜

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Despite all the political BS going on in Canada, I am very glad I am not in the USA right now. Mueller, who took over two years to finish his report, is showing his true colours, expecting than most people will have forgotten all those little political boo boos from 2016 to 2018, and for which el dumpo will now be forgiven. The only thing that matters is keeping the Repubs in power, and Mueller just went a long way to accomplishing that. All that “honour” people told me about Mueller having just disappeared.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. That’s kinda how I’m feeling…very disappointing. $25 million and 2 years sure didn’t accomplish much.
    I have this sickening feeling that the bad guys have won and even though they are not in the majority, we tend to forget that while they are roughly one third, another group called obliviousness and apathy represent another third. So that leaves us roughly just a third as well.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. The obstruction charge was dependent of finding evidence of collusion. So given the fact that an exhaustive investigation found zero evidence of collusion, it therefore follows that Mr. Trump stands exonerated of both.

    Why not accept the facts and move on with life?

    Like

  15. From my understanding, while there was no evidence of actual collusion, tRumpsky is not totally off the hook, i.e., The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

    In other words, contrary to all his blustering, he has not been pronounced, “Not Guilty.”

    Further, In making this determination, we [Barr and Rosenstein] noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference,” and that, while not determinative. the absence of such evidence bears upon the President’s intent with respect to obstruction. NOTE: keyword: “determinative.”

    As with all matters of law, there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt … and I would say especially when it comes to POTUS. To me, this does not seem to be the case. From my perspective, he did and does have “questionable” relationships with Russia. He’s just very careful and does things covertly and without leaving any identifiable traces.

    To sum it up … I don’t trust the guy. He’s proven through his dealings before he ever got into office that his interests and actions are totally done to benefit HIM. To think he’s changed is Incongruous with good sense.

    Liked by 2 people

    • To me, it doesn’t so much as feel like he’s been proven innocent as he’s gotten away with it, whatever “it” was/is. He has been lying about the topic like a room full of toss-rugs since this began. Why? His behavior in regards to Putin and Russia is treasonous at best and an embarrassment to our country, as tRump is himself.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Hello Nan. One other thing about the Russia / tRump thing we have to understand is the very limited time frame Mueller was to investigate it. Mueller was charged with seeing if the tRump campaign conspired with Russia. He couldn’t investigate the time before tRump ran, nor anything that happened with Russia after he was president. The truth is the money is the key. Russia knows tRump laundered money for them for years. Russia has the details. tRump has pushed all things good for Russia since he has been in office and the question is why? Is tRump hoping for more funds from Russia or is he worried the past will come to light. Either way it is a danger to the country that needs to be investigated. Hugs

      Like

      • Like I said at the end of my comment above … he’s interested in one thing and one thing only. Any action that might benefit the country as a whole is in second place … AFTER he takes care of his own personal interests.

        Many felt he was the ideal choice for POTUS because he was a “businessman” and not a “politician.” They were right. He is a businessman and HIS business will always come first.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. tRumpsky has whined that the country or its president should never have had to go through this investigation. I’d like to share something I just read …

    It would once have been unthinkable to even contemplate that a sitting president was putting the interests of a hostile foreign power above those of the United States. But Trump’s consistent praise of Putin, his pursuit of a massive real-estate deal in Moscow while Russia was waging a hacking and disinformation campaign against the United States in 2016, and the secrecy that continues to surround his conversations with his Russian counterpart have given some in the national-security community, including many leading Democrats, pause.

    You can read more here

    So, in essence, if he hadn’t been the person/president he is, we wouldn’t have had to go through the investigation.

    Like

Don't Be Shy -- Tell Us What You Think!

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.