There was a letter on today’s Opinion page of the local newspaper entitled:
Sanctity of marriage destroyed by congress
The lead sentence was as follows: The Congress of the United States just destroyed the respect marriage once held by passing the recent law.
Then, in another section of the paper was an article with this headline:
“Polygamous leader had 20 wives, many of them minors.”
As I was reading both of these submittals, I couldn’t help but wonder which marriage was the most disturbing — a marriage between two individuals of the same sex, an interracial marriage, or a marriage that included CHILDREN as wives.
For me, the answer was easy, but I guess for others … not so much.
Naturally, advocates for each position can scour the BIBLE and find support, but as we look at the situation from a modern perspective, which do YOU think is the most harmful … the most disturbing … the most immoral?
I often wonder if society will ever get past the idea that the BIBLE should serve as the standard for how individuals live their lives.
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Image by MasterTux from Pixabay
Nan's Notebook 
Jesus Christ is my standard. He puts far greater emphasis on being rightly related to himself than understanding bible standards. I may opine on your marital scenarios but to me he’s the final word.
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And what is his “final” word about the two scenarios?
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“From the beginning he made them male and female.. For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife.”
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So it’s OK if a man “cleaves” to 20 wives? Even if some of them are children? Further, in this scripture, the bible does not indicate the “wife” must be a female. You’re making an assumption.
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Yes Nan, I’m assuming; he has final say.
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Hello Arnold. How do you square that with the fact that marriage was happening without religious authorities being involved long after the idea of a Jesus walking the earth? The Catholic Church did not make marriage a sacrament until the 13th century, and only began to enforce strict religious conformity in marriage much later. For much of the early Christian Era, the Church stayed out of weddings and let the state handle the union of man and woman. Finally, sometime after 800 AD, the Church began to perform weddings, and a few centuries later the Catholic Church made marriage one of the sacraments. Hugs
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What’s to square?
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that sounds pretty cult leaderish to me? Obey me. Love me. Give up everything for me. Or burn in eternal torture. Just never saw why this is Good News.
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I think we hear what we listen for.
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Hello Nan. You had to know I would drag my butt over broken glass to read and comment on this subject. I had seen the child wives one, the guy was also forcing his wives, including the minors, along with the daughters of the man he was having sex with to stand nude and watch them do what the prophet called brother bonding. Just a point, if you need sex to bond with your brother you need to see a mental health professional.
Nan you said the religious could find support for this prophet’s actions in the bible, but really that just shows why we shouldn’t get our moral guidance from a book written 2,500 years ago by people with less understanding on medical and social issues that we have today. I keep saying that and I don’t seem to get much agreement or even push back from others.
To the point of your post what dishonors or debases marriage more, the way straight people treat it, or allowing same sex couples to be part of the legal benefits of such legal contracts. What most don’t realize is that churches and religion not only did not create marriage and did not get involved in it until the thirteenth century. That is what angers me about the people who keep talking about god given marriage and how marriage was designed by god to be one man / one woman. They forget David, Saul, and even Abraham with all the one man and whoever he wanted to … do it with.
I would love to see marriage become a totally legal contract devoid of any religious context. When I was in Germany in the 1980s one of my German friends got married. They had to do a civil ceremony first as everyone did, then if they wished they could have a religious ceremony. But it was first and foremost a legal contract with government oversite and benefits. Hugs
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Well, I’ve been married to a lizard skinned alien for the past ten years, so I’m not sure if my opinion on this means much.
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Hello Jeff. I think you would be in the best position to give an opinion on this. How do Social Security and the IRS handle human / lizard skinned alien unions? Can you get tax rebates for baby cooking supplies? Do you get medical tax deductions for the molted old skin cases? Oh so many questions, but I think you are on to something. And how do we get polyamory included in that situation? It is biblical right? Hugs
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only if your marriage involves you as the macho man supporting your family through your skill in hunting succulent Christian babies!
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Sanctity of marriage destroyed by congress
Whoever wrote that, doesn’t have a clue.
“Sanctity” is a religious term. I was married 57 years ago in a civil ceremony. Religion had nothing to do with it. And we are still doing fine. In the mean time, I know of people who had a religious marriage but were divorced after a year or two.
The recent congressional action has not affected my marriage at all. Nothing was destroyed. Welcome to reality.
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From the balance of his letter, it was apparent he was speaking from a religious/Christian POV. To believers, it’s all cut and dried … except that it isn’t.
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hey Nan…off topic sorta. i try to Like a comment. the little star blinks out and doesn’t record my like. I can still post comments, obviously. I am confusef
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That’s between wordpress and your browser.
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hmmm. could be. it’s just cropped up this week.
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WordPress gets a bit glitchy sometimes. I’ve had that happen to me too once in a while. Sometimes logging out of your WP account and then logging back in again will fix it.
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The wonderful thing about the bible, of course, is that one can find justification for doing just about anything. It’s only a matter of interpretation. ‘Creative’ interpretation works best. The same can be said of most religious texts – remaining obscure is the secret to longevity when it comes to doctrine. Though sleeping with goats seems to be generally frowned upon.
Jesus may indeed have the last say, but we haven’t heard a peep out of Him for a few thousand years (so He may have already had the last word), and the records, in this regard, are a bit scratchy. Let’s not forget that there remains are a few uncomfortable questions about his parents’ pre-marital behaviour, either.
Strangely, if one is to look for written advise on marital arrangements one is more likely to find succinct guidance within the pages of Playboy or Penthouse magazines (I only read them for the articles) than the bible. Hugh Hefner may have been a crazy misogynistic lunatic, but at least he was consistent.
And I just did a quick scan. Neither the bible nor the Koran has anything worthwhile to say about copulating with lizard-skinned aliens. That’s a tricky one. I think the June, 1984 edition of Playboy might have touched upon it (about 3 or 4 pages past the centrefold, as I recall) but even then didn’t provide a definitive yes or no.
But in a more direct answer to your question, Nan, my observation would be that religion is the only place where you might find any lenience on the idea of having sex with children. It’s universally abhorrent everywhere else.
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The bible says it’s ok to great drunk and screw your daughters.
That’s all you need to know …
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The slow rolling schism among “United” Methodists tells me that modern Christendom has multiple opinions on this. And even the LDS have their special panties in a wad over their latest Fundamentalist weirdo. Yes, Dear, he is a Mormon.
As for Arnold, as I recall he is not married. Jesus was not, right? A 30-something virgin who also never masturbated, as I am sure Arnold also does not. LDS got nothin’ on the RC Church. 🙂 And for the record, in the RC Church Arnold’s celibacy qualifies him as a marriage councilor. 🙂
The rules for and children are different. I agree they should be. Barring abusive situations, I don’t care who folks marry or do not.
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I don’t care who folks marry or do not — It’s too bad more don’t take that same approach. Instead, we have a nation of busy-bodies.
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A world of busy bodies.
I fully get the religious objections to the marriage issue but there are conditions and rights involved. My spouse (he, she, or they) has rights and responsibilities and I want those honored and protected just like my Evangelical neighbor’s.
I don’t care about the religious issues. I care about everyone’s rights. 🙂
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What I do not get, or seem to be able to get any answer, despite having asked many a time, is how would the marriage arrangement of someone else not involving me at all do anything at all to my marriage, or how I percieve it.
Christians get all worked up about some stuff related to the Bible on some strange tangent, while they are not at all intrrested in some other stuff on the same level. Gay sex is supposedly a sin they do not suffer even non-Christians to engage in, while tattoos seem to arouse a lot less sentiment even though it is just as forbidden according to the Bible. I find this to be highly hypocritical. The book does not even mention same sex marriages, so where do they pull the notion, that their god is against it? If their god actually exists, it has the most pitifull communication skills, suffers from a form of schitshophrenia, or it chooses to hide intentionally. Because, there are plenty of devout Christians who think their god is not against same sex marriage. Why has this god left one or the other of these groups in the false belief, that they know what he wants?
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This is as it has always been. “They” invoke their own standards of correctness according to whatever suits the occasion of the moment.
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Nan, the way I look at it, 1/2 of marriages fail, so there is not as much sanctity as people would hope. Marriage is hard work, even harder than most relationships as you said vows to make them last. In short, love cannot be taken for granted. It must be conveyed routinely as if you are watering a plant. So, giving all romantic couples the opportunity to get married is supportive of a country where everyone’s rights are supposed to be equal and respected. Maybe, same sex couples will have a better shot at beating the 50% success rate. Keith
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Good points!
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Interracial marriage is against gods law. The only marriage recognized by god’s law is one man and woman/women. There’s no limit on the number of women the man can or should have.
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The interpretations are many.
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canI marry a biological male who has been officially recognized as a woman by the government of Scotland?😛
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Brian, this is against god’s law. You will have to remain single. Or cohabit until such a time it is recognised by law or god takes a break from the bedroom
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I remember a Law & Order from long ago, before same-sex marriage was legal anywhere, when Jack McCoy said that gays & lesbians should be allowed to marry & “be as miserable as the rest of us”. I think that was one of the best points about marriage I ever heard. Marriage made me miserable & most people I know who are married are miserable. Only a few are happy & they would be just as happy if they weren’t married. Happy couples are happy couples, married or unmarried.
Except for the legal protections that marriage gives a couple, I do not understand why anyone would want to marry. & if you have a good lawyer, you can legally give yourself & your loved one all of those same legal protections without marriage. People talk about not being allowed to visit their loved ones in the hospital if they’re not married but HIPPA laws will allow ANYONE you choose to visit you in the hospital or view your medical records; you just have to decide who that person or persons are beforehand. I’m not married (never again) but I have chosen who can see me if & when I am in the hospital & who can not. I know my legal rights. Do you?
Marriage is patriarchal. FUCK THE PATRIARCHY!!!! FUCK MARRIAGE! LIVE IN FREEDOM WITHOUT MARRIAGE!
Marriage is also an industry. Fuck that noise, too. Stop buying into the whole romantic BS about weddings & happily ever after. Just shack up & be happy already.
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You do have a point.
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Religious nuttery causes so many unnecessary problems. It’s really pathetic when people can’t use their mind to reason and think critically because of some quote in some ancient text that’s been rewritten a thousand times, has early pagan roots and the constant theme of revenge and eternal torture. What kind of person believes this stuff or gives it any credit! You have to wonder why no religion ever pushes the notion of being kind, inclusive to all people, not judging others who are different, caring for the only planet we can live on so far, caring for all life..plants and animals and just being a decent person. No religion does this.
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The “religion” itself may teach all the good things you mentioned … but the PEOPLE who follow the religion just can’t seem to get it together. And one can’t help but wonder why this is … 😈
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Some religions, but certainly not the fundamentalists or evangelicals
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Many religions teach a bunch of good stuff, but as ideologies go, religious ideologies seem pretty confusing. Yet, the ones that are succesfull are also very flexible, in how they accommodate for the members. We think of the medieval Roman Catholic church as a very strict, conservative and rigid organization, but it was very accommodating towards the rich Feudal lords and to the traditional customs of barbarian overlords, sought to convert.
Secular ideologies appear very voulnerable to serve the self interrest of people too. Look at what happened to Socialism and Democracy at Russia.
Assert Conservatism and/authoritarianism to any secular ideology, or religious ideology and what you get is suffering. It is fear, that drives and motivates people towards these.
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Wow. Just wow.
Jesus said numerous times that woe will befall those who mislead and harm children. Jesus trumps all the other humans who preach this or that. So it is written in the KJV Bible I read, and so I believe.
Some of this is the same awful sense of proportion found in people who believe an extramarital affair is worse than putting other people to death in false wars.
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God is never mocked. Whatsoever a man sows, that will he also reap.
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??? I’m not sure what this scripture has to do with the topic of the blog post. Care to elaborate?
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