Reblog: The Absurdity of Anti-vaxers

An intelligent and non-debatable blog post related to the COVID virus.

The Truth Seeking Atheist

I have to admit, I find the anti-vax movement to be a bit funny. Not “HAHA” funny, more like “what the fuck is wrong with you” kinda funny. I swear that if today’s anti-vax morons were around 60 years ago we’d still have smallpox running loose inflicting it’s devastation. I’m also sure that they’d be convinced that small-pox is just a conspiracy to get people to comply with the government.

It is only because of a massive drive to vaccinate the world that we’ve completely eradicated smallpox (save for the samples that labs like the CDC still have around), and polio is on the verge of death as well. Even chickenpox’s, a near rite of passage for children when I was young, is incredibly rare today because we’ve managed to vaccinate most children against that disease – even their parents don’t’ have to face the risk of shingles outbreaks should…

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55 thoughts on “Reblog: The Absurdity of Anti-vaxers

  1. Listen, Nan, not only was I implanted with 78 tracking devices when I had my covid shot, I died 2 days later! I’ve been dead now for MONTHS from the covid vaccine, and it’s taking all my will power to write this reply on your blog from the afterlife, (A big Denny’s in Tucson, Arizona, FYI.) So, take it from a dead guy, the covid vaccine’ll not only implant you with 78 tracking devices, some as big as 45 story buildings, it’ll kill ya, too! That damn Fauci!!! I hates ’em!!!

    Liked by 11 people

  2. It’s impossible to argue with this logic. The one thing absent in the initial post is the presence of the internet, which I think has been the greatest perpetuator of misinformation. I wonder whether the aforementioned diseases would’ve been eradicated like they were if accessible, digital conspiracies supplemented vaccine hesitation and partisanship.

    Liked by 5 people

  3. Even with polio, we could have eliminated it much earlier, but religious crackpots (mostly Islamic ones in west Africa and Afghanistan, in this case) whipped up anti-vaccine fervor and allowed the disease to resurge.

    The anti-vaxers in the US are without excuse. They had easy access to solid information from scientists and doctors. They chose to believe talk radio and Donald Trump and internet conspiracy theorists instead. To hell with them. Leave them to die and ship our surplus vaccine doses to places like India and Africa where people actually want to get vaccinated but face shortages. The vaccines will actually do some good there.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. I definitely agree with the thrust of this post but am here to quibble about the details.

    Not all anti-vaxxers are morons. Some of the most prominent leaders of the movement – most notably Andrew Wakefield – are intelligent but criminally dishonest. This is glaringly evident in their propaganda documentary “Vaxxed”, which skillfully misrepresents and deliberately misinterprets facts in order to create a purposefully false impression among viewers that is likely to lead to unnecessary suffering and death. That these people remain on the lecture circuit rather than behind bars is a failure of our legal system and those charged with enforcing it.

    It also should be acknowledged that certain people who are in favour of vaccination need to shoulder some of the blame. Many of them, including health authorities, react to overplaying the dangers of vaccination by dishonestly underplaying them, particularly regarding the role of regulators in historical vaccination disasters, including with polio vaccines such as the 1955 Cutter Incident that infected over 200,000 children with polio and the 2019 fuck up in the Sudan that resulted in a vaccine induced outbreak of mutated polio virus that infected upwards of 1000 children in a region where polio was thought to have been eradicated.

    There have been similar, if far less serious, failures of swine flu vaccination programs such as the 1976 fiasco in which a combination of media induced panic and opportunism by some doctors and drug companies resulted in a hastily rolled out vaccination program that killed more people than did what turned out to be a very mild strain of swine flu and left hundreds more permanently disabled with a vaccine induced form of Guillain-Barre syndrome. The 2009 swine flu pandemic produced a near identical response of media induced panic and an over hasty rollout of vaccination, but this time they got ‘lucky’. The flu strain turned out to be more dangerous (though far less than initially reported) and the vaccine less dangerous than in 1976 and so the rollout saved lives instead of costing them, but that was purely down to luck.

    Those errors would be less concerning if it wasn’t for the fact that the medical establishment has shown little capacity to learn from them and modify procedures accordingly.

    Probably the biggest cause for concern is the FDA’s proven track record of approving drugs that have not been rigorously tested for safety, apparently in eagerness to please the drug companies that provide most of its funding as well as lucrative jobs for former FDA officials. The most recent high profile example, that of the Alzheimer’s drug Aducanumab, shows the problem is getting worse rather than better and that the anti-vax leadership aren’t unique in engaging in medical corruption that endangers many lives.

    Personally I’m confident the benefits of receiving a COVID vaccination far outweigh the risks for the overwhelming majority of people and the community as a whole. But I’d be more confident if there wasn’t so many liars on both sides of the argument.

    As for people who lack the education, access to information and critical thinking capacity to make their own judgements, well it’s down to who you trust isn’t it? Neither side have shown themselves worthy of trust so the slickest and most manipulative presenter will probably be the one who persuades them.
    And who can blame them?

    Liked by 2 people

    • except that, even given everything you say, I STILL trust the medical establishment and Big Pharma over the woo peddlers and religious wackaloons and political hacks. I think park of it is that at least with COVID they (the experts) were still feeling their way and not always certain themselves.

      But thank you for a needed dash of balance and fresh air in this debate!

      Liked by 3 people

      • I prefer to trust my own research and judgement.

        For example, it’s now been 20 years since research solidly established that treating young people with SSRI antidepressants increases their risk of suicidality. Yet they are still routinely prescribed to suicidal teenagers, despite even the FDA mandating a black box warning against using them that way. And sure enough, suicide rates among young people have been increasing in parallel with prescribing rates of SSRIs since the 1990s,

        Anti-vax propaganda is a serious matter, but most medical woo of the kind promoted by wellness bloggers is harmless other than the opportunity cost. There’s people who waste time and money on homeopathy or reiki who’d be better off seeking evidence based treatment, but the woo treatments themselves are unlikely harm them.

        OTOH, Big Pharma knowingly and systemically misrepresent the safety and efficacy of their products and have done for a long time. They’ve harmed far more people than the woo merchants and imposed a huge, unnecessary financial burden on our health systems.The Pharma induced opioid epidemic alone has led to more than 40,000 excess deaths per year in the US since 2000,

        The fact that many of their products do save lives doesn’t give them a free pass for that sort of behaviour. If you trust them uncritically you’ll probably be right most of the time. But you’ve only got to get it wrong once …

        Liked by 2 people

        • I would never argue that one should trust anyone, any group, any institution uncritically. That is not my position at all.

          But my skepticism extends, very strongly, towards trusting the kind of “University of Facebook” research that many anti-vaxxers cite. I am not saying that you are doing this, but I am very cautious about my ability to REALLY “do my own research and judgment”. Because that is exactly what the wackier anti-vaxxers we see in the US right now claim they are doing. Now, maybe you are a trained virologist….an expert in vaccine research. I am not. My brother, before he finally got what he called “the sheeple vaccine” intoned his concerns because there were people on Zero Hedge hyping up the problems with vaccines. As I told him, I would not trust Zero Hedge for investment advice, let alone medical decisions. And that does not mean I trust the mainstream media 100%, either. But ultimately, granting the inevitable corruption and self dealing in any industry, I still trust Big Pharma more than Reverend Cletus Jones (and his degree from the Eastern Indiana Independent Baptist Bible College) or Lotus Passionflower and her Dharma Pharmaceutical Temple. We cannot know everything. Heck, in my own profession I cannot even understand the engineers and their arcane way of claiming that a building project has serious traffic impacts when a project 1/2 mile away and twice as large somehow doesn’t. Pharmaceuticals and understanding risk? No way am I qualified.

          Liked by 3 people

        • Now, maybe you are a trained virologist….an expert in vaccine research.

          I’m not trained or experienced in any medical specialty, but I am trained in statistical analysis and know how to read scientific research papers, which I do every week, both in my work and to inform my own medical decision-making. I’m not blowing my horn here, I’m acknowledging my privilege. I’m a geek.

          But I don’t think the average person needs much specialised training or experience to make themselves responsible for their own medical decision making. Yeah, technical jargon is a major barrier that makes it a whole lot easier to read the woo bloggers than the journals, but some time, effort and an internet connection overcomes a lot of that too.

          What is needed is the sort of critical thinking capacity that is more often crippled than enhanced by specialised training and preparedness to use it. You might not be in a position to fully understand the risk of a pharmaceutical but neither is your doctor. Chances are she’s getting her continuing medical education from drug company reps and ‘opinion leader’ colleagues who are receiving Big Pharma benefits for promoting their products. It’s very unlikely she has the time to properly look into the potential dangers and drawbacks of all the drugs she prescribes. That’s how the opioid epidemic took hold.

          So it’s up to you to carefully look into the side-effects and contraindications of anything you’re taking and monitor yourself for signs of them. It’s also a good idea to do an internet search for any past, current or pending legal actions in relation to the drug, both regulatory fines and civil actions. Illegal off-label promotion, kick-backs for prescribers and previously concealed trial data are all red flags.

          Good doctors know what to prescribe. Excellent doctors know what not to prescribe. But you’re the one who’ll be carrying the can either way. Make yourself an expert about your own medical conditions and treatments.

          BTW, you don’t need to subscribe to scientific and medical journals to get access to most research articles. There’s libraries. There’s also sci-hub.

          Liked by 2 people

  5. Hello Nan. With the chips in the vials too small to see how does the shot giver make sure they got a chip or enough chips into each shot? Can you get all the chips in the first shot, if so what happens to the next 8-10 doses in the vial? I must have gotten a defective dose because while my vaccine is protecting me from Covid, I am still waiting for my free 5G streaming to work. Hugs

    Liked by 4 people

    • For me this part of Dr. Fiscus’s comment stood out above all that was written: leaders who have only their own interests in mind. THIS is the impetus behind this entire vaccine/no-vaccine fiasco!

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Think about the people we are talking about.

    Their pulpits are full of Pastors who poison them with lies. (I wonder how many of the pastors have been vaccinated.)

    They elected the governors, state and federal legislators who spread the lies and deny the safety precautions that would help them.

    They are avid fans of Fox. Today there was a report that Fox had demanded all their employees get vaccinated or lose their jobs. That includes Carlson.

    I’m afraid this all points to their I. Q. The church, the GOP, and Fox propaganda all require people who are too lazy to think. The only other thing would be that they are active participants in the effort to destroy our republic. I’m sorry to say it, but the majority of my and my wife’s family are part of this group.

    Liked by 4 people

    • You wrote — the majority of my … family are part of this group. This seems to be fairly common for many of us as related to politics (and thus, vaccinations). One can’t help but wonder when the “split” happened.

      I don’t speak to my daughter very often, but she (and her staunchly Republican) husband have both pooh-poohed the whole virus thing (“It’s just the flu”). *sigh*

      Liked by 1 person

      • Out shopping yesterday – which is like a military style recce operation for me and the missus these days – we bumped into an acquaintance from the Tuck Shop Days at school( All our kids attended Marist Brothers down the road), and we chatted for 5 minutes.
        Her sister in law , who had a few sniffles last month is now dead. Covid. Killed her in three weeks.
        The 31 year old daughter of a doctor we both know who lives in a nearby suburb, Kensington died last week.
        Our friend Mrs R has Covid and now the entire family has it as well, including little Catherine!
        The 40 something lady driver of the packaging company we use for our cake boxes was hospitalised yesterday and according to Sindy, her boss it’s looking bleak for her recovery.
        And there are a few more we know or know of, so you will excuse me if I prefer to err on the side of minor paranoia when it comes to keeping my distance, sterilising everything and basically trying to ensure me and mine are around next year.

        Flu? Yeah, right!

        Liked by 4 people

        • Sorry about Catherine (and her family)! Trust that because she’s young, she’ll be able to fight it off.

          Where do things stand there re: vaccinations?

          Liked by 1 person

        • Vacs are being steadily rolled out is all I have heard/read. You now me and avidly following news!
          I have not checked how widespread and because of the recent nonsense things slowed down on all fronts this past week or so

          Liked by 2 people

    • I think you touch on a point: laziness. I would add to that there is lack of education. There is poor inherent intelligence. So many of the American population though, are not only lazy but committed to, proud of their ignorance. They knowze the trooth and anything that questions that truth s just ignored. It’s a decision to be ignorant.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Yeah, but to be fair Americans have been the prime target of misinformation, marketing and propaganda since before Edwards Bernays was being jiggled on his Uncle Sigmund’s knee. You’re fed crap 24/7 from birth to death.

        There are far more people being paid to mislead you than to inform you and they don’t all work on Madison Avenue and the Beltway. They’re in the media, the educational institutions and the medical professions as well. Is it any wonder so many Americans are giving up on the truth when they have to process mountains of bullshit to extract every tiny nugget of it? And they’re not being equipped with the tools to do it.

        Liked by 1 person

        • You’re fed crap 24/7 from birth to death.

          This may be true but in most cases, the average person does not have the time (or energy) to investigate every news offering to validate its accuracy. I think most of us lean towards sources that support what we believe and/or have been taught.

          Having said that, I DO think doing research and being open to other viewpoints is the truly smart way to form opinions. However, unless you are disabled or retired, work and family tend to usurp such activities.

          Liked by 1 person

        • I agree, That’s actually the point I was trying to make.

          If you don’t want to live in a post-truth society with everyone wandering around with a head full of BS and the more arrogant ones spewing it out at others there’s no point calling some people idiots and sitting smugly in your superiority for choosing to swallow a different flavour of BS, such as Russiagate instead of Stop the Steal.

          No, it’s not practical for most people to spend the time and effort needed to sift the truth from it, though I’d suggest that as you live in a country where the cost of getting sick can plummet a middle class family into poverty it’s probably more important to go to the time and trouble of learning about your medical treatments than putting in that extra overtime so you can buy the latest consumer goods.

          The only change that’s gonna work is change to your society. You need the sort of political change that moves you away from the choice between elephant crap and donkey crap. Less representation and more participation. You need the sort of change that makes it less profitable to manufacture manipulation and lies to get you to buy stuff. Less consumerism and more community. And you need the sort of change that ends the stream of propaganda needed to justify US military expenditure, torture and bombing. Less imperialist warmongering.

          You’ve gotta make bullshit less profitable. You’ve gotta make jobs in marketing, manipulation, propaganda and PR less respectable. You’ve gotta stop seeing what comes out of your TV screens as harmless entertainment and call it out for the mind-numbing effluent it is.

          When you stop spending so much time and energy acquiring and consuming the lies you might find you’ve got more resources to dedicate to truth.


        • I agree with all that you’re written. But consider … to point out what “WE need to do” is a bit presumptuous coming from someone who (apparently) is not one of the “we’s.”

          Most of the people who frequent my blog are well aware of the things that need changing — and some are actually doing what they can to make these changes. But when the average person is up against huge corporations and $$$$$$, it’s a bit difficult to accomplish much.

          We can all find fault. We can all see what needs to be done to make things better. But not everyone has the wherewithal to accomplish these goals.


        • “WE need to do” is a bit presumptuous coming from someone who (apparently) is not one of the “we’s.”

          Actually I am. Australia is a cultural, economic and military colony of the US. It’s a 51st state in all but voting rights – not that voting means anything. We consume US media, US politics, US weapon systems and US values. We die in US wars and participate in US war crimes. The only thing in my comment that doesn’t apply here is the US health system, but we’re working on it (or at least our leaders and think-tanks are – and by ‘our’ I mean both Australian and US ones).

          Don’t forget the reason the corporations have so many $$$$$ is because we hand it to them. Obviously no one is in a position to completely wean themselves from the state-corporate teat, but we can do our best to shut off or block our ears to their propaganda and minimise our worker-consumer collusion in our own enslavement. And we can devote some of the time and effort we save from doing that into trying to change how it works.

          Will we accomplish the goal of liberating ourselves, or even of significantly delaying consumergeddon? I doubt it. I think we’re probably screwed. But at least we can put up a fight on the way to the chopping block. Maybe earn a bit of self-respect instead of trying to buy it.

          Liked by 1 person

  7. These people are putting other people at risk too, who aren’t trump supporting anti vaxers. And these are people who no doubt support voter suppression, deny climate change, are racists, bigots and full of conspiracy theories and are religious nutcases. They do much damage to our society

    Liked by 3 people

    • Of course according to THEM, us “liberals” are the bad guys. “We” want to take away their “personal freedoms.” But it’s A-OK for them to spread their virus-infected personal freedoms to everyone around them.

      Liked by 1 person

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