Defeat Trump

Just came across this writer (via Zoe) and overwhelmingly felt his words needed to be shared.

Defeat Trump on Every Front

Warning: The post is long but well worth your time. It was written on January 12 and, as is common in today’s world, events continue to evolve. But I believe his points are extremely relevant to what is happening –and needs to happen– within the U.S. political world.

90 thoughts on “Defeat Trump

  1. An intelligent, sober piece, and I agree with the recommendation. He has useful insights for dealing with this frightening problem.

    I thought it was interesting that he described Trump as “the spiritual and operational leader of this insurgency”. As I said here, for a long time before 2015 much of the right wing had been operating like a cult, but it was a cult with no real leader. Trump stepped into the role of its “prophet” and they embraced him as such. The QAnon qrackpots attribute almost godlike powers and wisdom to him, believing him to be fighting a vast, existentially-evil Satanic conspiracy behind the scenes. And yes, he has to go down to allow any hope at all of breaking the wingnut fever dream that holds tens of millions in its thrall.

    I doubt that there will be the necessary 17 Republican votes in the Senate to secure an impeachment conviction, unless McConnell goes all out trying to secure them. But it might actually be better if he’s prosecuted and imprisoned by New York state for his financial crimes. An impeachment would be the kind of grand, epic fall worthy of a “god”, a defeat that took the combined efforts of some of the most powerful people in government to bring about. His cult might well spin it that way in their own heads, at least, and imagine Trump as a hero who sacrificed himself trying to save his chosen people (notice the similarity to the Jesus narrative — Christian American minds are primed for such a concept). But if he’s taken down by a mundane state attorney general for sordid, shabby crimes like bank fraud and tax evasion, it will make him look small and ordinary in his downfall, while Biden and Congress play no role in defeating him, being busy with more important matters. That will be a loss that knocks him off his pedestal, as French (correctly, I think) deems essential to breaking his grip on his cult followers’ minds.

    Liked by 5 people

    • I tend to agree … the takedown via New York is probably much more effective in undermining his “god-like” status. On the other hand, his “worshippers” are so dedicated, one could see them lambasting any criminal charges against him.

      In essence, he’s become a “messiah” to many and, similar to the one in the “holy book,” he will continue to be held in reverence and looked up to as their “savior.”

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  2. Maybe I’m being clueless here, but by the time this whole impeachment thing is heard in the senate, won’t Trump already be out of office? How is it going to be possible to impeach a private citizen? On top of that I heard a huge part of Trump’s speech. He encouraged people to peaceably protest. I didn’t hear a word about telling folks to break out windows and storm into the capital. Later he denounced the violence. Out of tens of thousands of people at the rally, only a comparative few wrecked havoc at the capital. These are the people who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and held accountable. IMO with where our country is at right now the Biden administration has enough on it’s plate to deal with. I can’t see how this whole impeachment thing is going to bring unity or be anything but a distraction from the many pressing concerns at hand. What a mess? I’m taking a news break for three months.

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      • Cagjr, there is going to be this huge argument over whether it’s actually constitutional to attempt to impeach a president who has already left office. I’m definitely expecting a three ring circus with our country all the more divided. I can’t see this is what we need right now. But, well, let’s face it, there’s not much any of us can do, but make a positive difference within our personal sphere. Well have to see what happens.

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        • David French’s piece at Nan’s link answers your question quite well. There’s no hope of getting to any kind of “unity” unless the Trump cult is deprogrammed and re-enters the real world, and part of that has to mean breaking their extravagant delusions about Trump and making them acknowledge his criminality. Whether or not holding an impeachment trial of a president already out of office is possible or not — which is admittedly dubious — he needs to be held accountable for his crimes, if not by an impeachment trial then by ordinary criminal prosecution.

          There’s also a matter of simple justice. In a case of extraordinary, outright criminal behavior by a president, he must be tried and punished just like anyone else guilty of comparable crimes. He shouldn’t get a special pass just because he was president — nobody is above the law. The law cannot be intimidated by threats of mob violence into letting a criminal escape justice.

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    • Yeah from memory he also used the word “fight” and of course he was not going to blatantly say go in and kill these people, however the word “fight” would be enough without the rest of the rhetoric to get the blood pumping in these pack of wolves howling for blood and didn’t Trump know it.

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      • Sklyjd, Trump would have to be a complete idiot to actually hope that a violent group of his supporters would over run the capital. He would have known this could only harm his cause. I think his intent was to stir people up to loudly and peacefully protest, to not go out quietly and to make their voices heard, nothing more. In retrospect, I wish none of this had happened and everything was done differently. A mob overrunning the capital was a tragedy and a disgrace. The people who did this should be prosecuted..But, for Trump to exercise his free speech rights in this context is not going to be shown “a high crime” by the court if it gets that far. I just can’t see it.

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        • Trump would have to be a complete idiot

          Your point being…..?

          People who were with Trump at the time said Trump was excited and pleased as he watched the mob overrunning the Capitol on TV. The mob themselves apparently believed that if they could stop the electoral-vote count and murder a certain number of politicians, this would somehow negate the election result and enable Trump to stay in power. It seems very plausible that Trump was dumb enough to believe the same thing.

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  3. Well, folks, will have to agree to disagree. There has been ever effort to bring “Trump down” for the last four years. Now he’s been voted out of office. I personally think this is all a huge waste of the taxpayers money and the energy of the Congress. We are in the middle of a health crisis and Lord knows tons of other concerns. People who resort to violence and refuse to follow the rule of law are not going to be “deprogrammed” whether Trump is impeached or not. There are certain groups of people like this sadly, on both the left and the right. But, the vast majority of folks who supported Donald Trump are peaceful and law abiding citizens who abhorred this violent riot at the capital. I just think it’s time to move on. I’ll be honest, I don’t exactly have very high expectations for President elect, Biden. But, as president I’m giving him support and will hope and be praying for the best.

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    • the vast majority of folks who supported Donald Trump are peaceful and law abiding citizens who abhorred this violent riot at the capital

      Sorry, wrong. 45% of Republicans approved of the storming of the Capitol, 43% of them opposed it. That is, about half the US conservative movement openly favors murderous violence and sedition.

      I just think it’s time to move on.

      No, not if that means exempting Trump from being prosecuted for his crimes just as any other criminal would be. We cannot accept letting the rich and powerful off the hook for crimes that an ordinary person would go to prison for. As to the political effects, David French’s article — which is the whole point of this post — explains very well why that issue makes it all the more important that Trump be held accountable.

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      • But, wait I’ve read polls that show otherwise. We could get into the “battle of the polls.” Although, based on how accurate the polls were in predicting the nuances of the election, I don’t know. 🙂

        Infidel, many people are conservative/libertarian in their views simply because they favor smaller govt. and feel this is best for people and our country in the long term. They are looking for folks to have equality of opportunity, but feel that to somehow force equality of outcome will come at a loss of freedom. They are not racists, xenophobes, haters, white supremacists,, etc.

        I also want to add in case you might think otherwise, they are probably more Christians in the mainline churches who are at least mildly progressive and did not vote for Donald Trump as the other way around.

        I have many conservative friends and acquaintances. I don’t know a soul who supports violent insurrection. And, if I did, I would definitely not keep my mouth shut, but would try to pull them from “the error of their ways.”

        None of us can afford to blindly accept everything as unbiased or true that we hear through media. All right, enough said..What happened to my New Years’ resolution to stay off the internet???LOL

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    • The vast majority of citizens who supported the post-Reconstruction South, including Jim Crow, were peaceful and “law” abiding citizens. The vast majority of citizens who cluck clucked about church bombings and lynching’s during the Civil Rights era were peaceful citizens. The vast majority of “pro-life” voters were appalled by abortion clinic bombers. And yet, and yet, the politics and culture of the Neoconfederate right wing provides the sea in which these violent sharks swim. After all, it is such a holy, Godly sea, we are told. Unlike any Democratic Party president, Trump was uniquely chosen by God.

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      • Brian, I’m afraid I don’t attend a Christian denomination where all the folks think Trump is “appointed” by the Lord. As a matter of fact, for many of them Satan might as well have been ensconced in the White House. And, the poor pastors are dealing with folks with all these strongly opposing views within the same congregation. It must be like walking through a minefield. Prayers. I’m part of a group supporting folks in the church struggling with various life challenges, depression, grief, mental health issues. These lay counselors also have very diverse views political views as do all of our care receivers. We had a long discussion the other day about all the things that unite us and how we can continue to care for one another through our differences. It’s not always easy and emotions can run high. But, I feel like people are most important and we need to be there for each other no matter what.

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  4. At the beginning of David French’s piece, he stresses two very important points related to the Capital riot. Just in case anyone chose not to read the article, I’m going to include them here:

    With the benefit of hindsight, we can now see two converging movements that culminated in Wednesday’s assault on the Capitol. The first was an ongoing propaganda effort, engineered in the White House, aided and abetted by members of Congress, and empowered by conservative media. It was a propaganda effort centered around a plain and provable lie: that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump.

    The second effort was a paramilitary/terror effort that first indulged in acts of intimidation—including by threatening politicians who enforced election law—then plotted a violent attack, and then executed that attack in vicious, spectacular fashion on January 6. The more we learn about the attack itself, the worse it appears. There is now real cause for concern that attackers intended to seize and publicly execute members of Congress and perhaps Vice President Mike Pence.

    This lays it out pure and simple — and has been corroborated numerous times by multiple news reports. If anyone continues to doubt the validity of what happened, they are truly living in a Trump-designed artificial world.

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  5. That’s the HUGE problem, Nan. So many really are living in a Trump-designed artificial world, as illustrated by blog comments. 😦
    OH, and there are Canadians who profess this nonsense, as well. Someone in our community told my sister-in-law that those people who were involved in the riots were ‘actors’. When my sister-in-law tried to argue with her she replied, “You really need to educate yourself!” Head-shakingly horrifying, I tell you.

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    • Actors, huh? She must be a member of the group that made similar claims about the Sandy Hook shooting.

      I continue to be dumbfounded that people are so taken in by conspiracy theorists. But then, I suppose it’s easier to believe fairy tales (hint…hint) than it is to accept factual truth.

      Hope you are doing well … and even though there is nonsense circulating there as well, it’s still better than living in the thick of things!

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      • Nan, I am worrying about my friends/relatives in the States. . . unfortunately, the election has indicated that there are 70 million people who think like Becky. Scary. It has changed the way we feel about the nation to the south. . . We’ve lost our desire to even travel through, enroute to Ontario, which we used to so enjoy. (Not that we can go anywhere now anyway! 🙂 ). I think the bloodthirsty hounds have been let loose – and yes, one CAN blame tRump – and they’ll not stop. I really hope I’m wrong on that. Perhaps when he’s wearing a pair of orange overalls people will realize they’ve been duped by a dangerous conman.

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        • Perhaps when he’s wearing a pair of orange overalls — Oh how I dream of that day!

          As to whether it will make a difference to his rabid supporters? Somehow I doubt it. He will have them convinced that the charges are false, he was “set up,” and his attorneys are going to “prove” his innocence. In fact, I can visualize them standing on prison grounds “demanding” his release!

          I have NEVER wished ill will on anyone, but …

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        • Carmen, please don’t let this deter you from visiting the US. There are many wonderful people on both sides of the political aisle. I am truly not scary and would not harm a hair on anyone’s head. I actually have a golden retriever/social worker type personality. I would serve you tea and cookies. We would find common ground together. Peace.

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          • That’s the part that truly frightens me, Becky. I cannot understand how seemingly good people could have ever have voted for such a morally bankrupt person. You see, it seems to me that if a man shows himself to be a sexist and a racist, a liar and fraud, that truly good people would see it too. 😦

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            • Carmen, here is the dilemma that I think we are in. Neither Biden nor Trump qualify for saint hood. Did you know that Biden had been accused of sexual assault ? There have been real concerns about the Biden families sketchy business dealings with China. There have been concerns about racist sounding remarks coming from Biden. As a matter of fact during the primary Kamala Harris confronted Mr. Biden relating to his past opposition to integration of the schools through busing. There have been real concerns raised relating to Mr. Biden’s cognitive abilities. This is huge and very concerning IMO. But, Carman, a big difference between these two men is that most of the main stream media is complicent with the democratic party. You might as well say they are like an arm of the democratic party. So they tend to minimize all these concerns with Mr. Biden if they are addressed at all. Meanwhile all of President Trump’s accomplish ments are minimized while his faults are highlighted. Trump’s supporters tend to also be cast in the worse light possible. And, of course, we are all filtering our views though the media and are very much conditioned by that. Even these alleged fact checkers are not always neutral. It can be difficult to come to objective truth. I think Trump has done some really good things for our country, but at the same time he has a temperament like a bull in a china shop. Neither of these men would have been my first choice this time around.

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            • And, of course, we are all filtering our views though the media and are very much conditioned by that.

              And this is indicated by everything you just wrote as well.

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  6. “Defeat Trump on Every Front”? How is this sentiment any less insane than what the radical right-wing conspiracy theory nut jobs want? To me, it sounds downright Orwellian. So, are all Biden supporters Antifa radicals who want to destroy America? Are we really that deranged in our hatred for Trump? If our country is ever going to heal, we need to see that there are crazy and dangerous people on both sides and start talking to each other. We need to grow up and be able to disagree on policies without sending the opposition to internment camps.

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    • Yes, there are undoubtedly crazy and dangerous people on both sides … but in my lifetime (which is considerable), I don’t recall ever experiencing a “leader” quite like Trump.

      It’s one thing to embrace certain political ideologies, but Trump has NEVER been interested in MAGA. His ONLY interest has been how his actions will benefit HIM. You do remember, I trust, that he once claimed to be a Democrat?

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      • True, he was different, which is why crony politicians generally hate him. And you certainly have a right to your opinion about his motives. Personally, I really don’t care much for Democrats or Republicans. 😊

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        • I agree — party titles are often taken much too seriously. Personally, I wish there could be blending of the two philosophies as, IMO, neither one has the “ideal” solution to how this nation is governed.

          I admit I lean towards the party that tries to initiate actions that benefit everyone (all colors, creeds, nationalities, etc.), but even these actions need to be carried out in moderation. Unfortunately, this seems to be an impossible task in the political world.

          Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.

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          • You’re basically explaining every career politician in Washington D.C. Every one of them, on both sides of the aisle, including our incoming POTUS, have greatly enriched themselves at our expense. But of all of Trump’s many faults, enriching himself as a politician was not one of them. That’s why the cronies elites hated him. So Trump became the “Goldstein” on the nightly “two-minutes of hate” in all the media.

            But my point had nothing to do with Trump. It’s that it’s a very dangerous slippery slope one travels on when we engage in these witch hunts, which usually comes back to bite you when the power pendulum swings the other way. Besides, they’re not the enemy just because they believe differently than you do, nor do most of them have anything to do with radical elements that foment the violence. I think we’re all better off by ratcheting down the rhetoric and not demonizing people we may disagree with politically. It’s called freedom of speech.

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            • Mel, I totally agree. One of the most concerning development I’ve seen in the last few years is in this attempt to limit or outright ban free speech, the whole “cancel culture” as well as the demonization of anyone who disagrees. I’ve just read that now there’s a move afoot by certain professors and students at Harvard to literally revoke the earned degrees of alumni who supported Trump. If we go too far down this road, we are going to be toast as a free nation. Nan, I’m giving you every credit for allowing this open discussion on your blog. I’ve been actually banned from a couple of other places because of my political views. And, heck I’m actually a decent person. 😄

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            • I don’t generally “ban” people if they stay on-topic and remain civil. Obviously, I don’t always agree with some comments (and may often say so), but based on the ideology of my usual visitors, I often allow them to carry out the “counter-attack.”

              Since you and Mel are both in the “god-fearing” crowd, it’s not surprising you would agree with his perspective. 🙂 Having said that, I do think he’s made a couple of good points.

              What’s disturbing is that far too much anger and bitterness often manifest when discussing politics and religion.

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            • @ Rebecca Rome.

              That’s exactly the point, Rebecca. Everyone, regardless of party affiliation, should be against banning free speech and ruining people’s careers just because they don’t politically agree with them. That’s exactly what the CCP and other totalitarian dictatorships do, not what America represents.

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            • @ Nan.

              “What’s disturbing is that far too much anger and bitterness often manifest when discussing politics and religion.”

              I actually agree, Nan. 🙂 Politics and religion are both things people get very emotionally invested in, which makes them very similar in spirit. Interestingly enough, this is why Jesus warned His followers against the “leaven” of the Pharisees (religious) and Herod (political).

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            • @ Becky.

              Well said, Becky. That IS the point. The issue here is freedom of speech and maintaining a society where there can be civil discourse between people who may have radically different views, without hunting them down like some Communist dictatorship would do. I would think we would all want that. 🙂

              Btw, this is one of the reasons our founding fathers did NOT want a pure democracy (mob rule), but a Constitutional Republic. As one of them said, “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.”

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      • So, so true, Nan. I think Trump’s “professed” love for his MAGA supporters has been his most successful working myth. Early on in 2015 he was spouting simple images: “drain the swamp” “lock her up” and they resonated with a group who, simply put, wanted to hear those words. The false messaging was propagated by FOX because it was obvious Trump was a cash cow, and the evangelicals preached it because it was a path to power. The non-critical thinking MAGA bunch were ripe for picking.

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    • we need to see that there are crazy and dangerous people on both sides

      But the crazy and dangerous people are a dominant presence on the right and a negligible one on the left.

      We cannot “heal” the country by trying to find common ground halfway between sanity and lunacy, and we can’t even validly assess the problem if we keep pretending that it exists to the same extent or even a remotely similar extent on both “sides”. Global warning is real. Covid-19 is real and extremely dangerous. There was no substantial fraud in the 2020 election. There is no cabal of Satanic child molesters at the top of the Democratic party. These are verifiable facts, not matters of opinion. The right wing, and only the right wing, is en masse in the grip of dangerous delusions, and that needs to be dealt with before there can be any “healing” of the country.

      As for “defeat Trump on every front”, French did an excellent job of explaining why this is necessary.

      Liked by 6 people

      • “There is no cabal of Satanic child molesters at the top of the Democratic party.” Well, some of us do, in fact, enjoy eating a fried child or two with our fellow “libs” in various pizza parlor basements throughout the nation and greater Canada, AND most of us “libs/dems” are, indeed, “Satanists” so there is SOME truth in the QAnon stuff. Welp, I’m off to sacrifice a few GOP members to Lucifer now so I do hope you have a pleasant day. $Amen$

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        • Why are you assuming Our Dark Lord would WANT a GOP sacrifice, Inspired? I imagine the flavor of corporate pork barrel grease and sour piety would be…distasteful….to a deity with otherwise impeccable taste!

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      • Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. And I’m not advocating for some false equivalency. But don’t you think it’s a bit hypocritical to want to cancel Trump supporters because of a few right-wing nut jobs after having endured a whole year of violent riots and looting and destruction of our cities by the radical left, many of these shouting “Death to America?” Why do these things get a pass? They certainly weren’t Trump supporters (and I wouldn’t blame Biden and hunt down all his followers because of them either).

        And how would we actually know if the elections weren’t fraudulent? The fraudulent claims were never litigated on the basis of merit, but simply swept under the proverbial rug. The whole thing smells of a cover up. Besides, Elizabeth Warren was making the same argument about Dominion voting machines and election integrity issues in 2018. So, that shouldn’t even be a partisan issue. Everyone should want to know what happened to come out in the full light of day for the good of our country, regardless of who is benefitting, instead of putting it down the “memory hole” and hunting down the dissidents. So, I would say both sides have to honestly own up to their own issues here instead of putting all the crazy on the other side.

        And my general problem with the article is that we’re now advocating eliminating freedom of speech when we don’t like it, making a straw man out of the actions of a small minority of radicals, which is never a good road to go down. We need to learn how to have honest discussion, even with vehement disagreement on ideology, without putting the other side in the gulag.

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      • But, Infidel was it the Trump supporters who were rioting and looting for months this summer? Who was occupying Portland and Seattle? I truly think there are bad actors on all sides. I’ve also observed that people on either side can have real concern about the same issue, but see different solutions. For instance, I care deeply about the poor, but I don’t feel the best way to help is to substantially raise the corporate tax rate. I can see how this might result in a net loss of new jobs actually harming the poor and the working class more in the long term. I care about climate change, but I don’t feel the realistic answer is to expect to completely switch over to wind and solar anytime soon. I’m also concerned that if we lose our energy independence, this could once again lead to dependence and conflict with those who don’t have our best interests at heart in the middle east. Do you see? I could just go down the line here with every issue. We need to learn to work together rather than to suppose that people who disagree with us our enemies with malevolent motives who don’t care.

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        • Seriously exaggerated in the right wing media, Becky. As others have pointed out: a few square blocks were effected. Minneapolis got hit a little harder, of course.

          You also ignore (being a comfortable, middle class white Christian) the REASON for some of the rage. Versus the sheer fascist views of your Great Leader’s supporters. Nobody likes fervor and (limited) violence, but this both-siderism ignores the reasons behind BLM protests. It also ignores the reality that some of the violence and looting was opportunistic, no0t really part of the protests. Versus YOUR little putcsch, which it now turns out had Trump staffers involved in the planning stages as well as loony to0ons Republican congresscritters and state legislators PARTICIPATING. Sorry, I don’t buy the both siderism. They are not the same.

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      • That’s one reason I read that article with a bit of skepticism. Too much both siderism. And I’m sorry, England’s horrific history of colonial exploitation of Ireland made Sein Fein rational and the IRA, as horrible as it was, at least UNDERSTANDABLE.

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      • Yes! My Trumpanzee co-workers just started mumbling darkly about “Soros”. And they claim there were “Antifa” demonstrators in my small middle class and quite caucasian (for California) suburb over the weekend. (I am skeptical).

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      • There ARE elements of the left that can be frightening in their own way. Sacramento saw black block protestors (who hate Biden because he is not bringing about “the revolution” did a little bit of rioting this week. Now…the black block is not funded by billions of toxic cash from our sociopathic “owners”. There is no nationwide left wing media channel like OAN or Fox. And 30-50% of “liberals” and “lefties” are not as crazy as the Republican electorate seems to be.

        So, I agree with Infidel here as to who is more dangerous at the moment. But there are shiboleths on the left that drive me nuts. And I will not talk about them here because I would be tarred and feathered. 🙂

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  7. But, Nan, how do we come to truth in some of these things. I reviewed plenty of evidence of what appeared to me to be fraud and irregularities in this election. I personally think this should have been taken up by the Supreme Court to settle things once and for all. Perhaps much of this turmoil could have been avoided.

    But, thinking about this deeply none of us were physically there when events unfolded. We don’t know these people personally? I mean there’s no doubt that the media is biased. One example, I was watching when a reporter from CNN was talking about the “mostly peaceful protests” this summer. As he was speaking the camera happened to catch this huge raging fire burning down buildings in the background. It was sad, but also a bit humorous.

    I feel like we can only do our best to hear all sides, and make the best decision possible. And, have some grace for the equally sincere people who might disagree with us.

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    • what appeared to me … and that’s your proof of authenticity?

      Of course the media is biased … but when you hear or read things that come directly from the horse’s mouth (that some media conveniently ignore), then it seems to me that’s pretty authentic.

      If the Supreme Court had felt there was enough evidence to review the “voting fraud” case, I’m sure they would have. Apparently, they didn’t feel the presented “evidence” was enough to spend their time and our tax dollars to review and rule upon.

      Further, there are numerous individuals who have left (often by forced “choice”) the administration and then shared their experiences. Interestingly, much of what they have said/written has validated what “the biased media” has shared.

      You can defend the actions of the party that has been in control over the past four years all you want, but IMO, the facts speak for themselves.

      Liked by 5 people

  8. Nan, Scottie has a video up about tRump’s accomplishments that Becky (and others) may appreciate. (You know me and my tech impairments – don’t know how to link it on my ipad) 🙂

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  9. Is it the one with that guy who talks in his basement and wears the ballcap? I personally don’t like him. I may agree with some of what he says, but I look at it this way … who is he except just another individual spouting his opinion that happens to use video to do it.

    But I admit, I rarely enjoy watching videos. So there’s that.

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  10. Nan, I think the right-wing / semi-Trumpist comments here illustrate the depth of the problem French was talking about better than anything you or I might say could ever do. They’re a stew of evasion, whataboutism, both-siderism, clinging to made-up nonsense, and changing the subject instead of addressing the specific points made in the comments they’re supposedly responding to. They’re nowhere near acknowledging the problem, much less dealing with it.

    If you try to talk to a relative about his excessive drinking, and he responds with a blizzard of “reasons” why your being sober every day is just as bad as his being falling-down-drunk every day (so there’s a problem on “both sides”), then he is not ready to address the issue and is not living in reality.

    It’s going to take time for them to face facts and accept reality, if they ever do. Things that we say may or may not help, but it’s going to take time.

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    • Infidel, I appreciate your patience.😊. One thing I want to say folks is that we can’t allow these differences to separate us from people that we care the most about. I mean there are whole families not speaking to one another over all this. Life is too short. It is always possible to find common ground.

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      • No Rebecca it is not always possible to find common ground. Not with a Trumper, QAnon follower, Christiane Northrup follower, Alien following, Domestic Terrorist/Arsonist, Kill the bastard Democrats who are part of a satanic cabal who eat babies and run human trafficking rings.

        There is not always common ground. And to suggest it in my view can be very dangerous. There have to be boundaries to all of this.

        Infidel puts it succinctly: “If you try to talk to a relative about his excessive drinking, and he responds with a blizzard of “reasons” why your being sober every day is just as bad as his being falling-down-drunk every day (so there’s a problem on “both sides”), then he is not ready to address the issue and is not living in reality.”

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        • Zoe, I would agree with you that sometimes we do have to set boundaries for ourselves to prevent continued abuse. Perhaps you’re right, with some folks this is going to be a “tough row to hoe.”

          I mean, I have friends and relatives who are much more politically progressive, but they are also very kind and reasonable people. I think they care for me as a person. We are easily able to connect on other levels.

          It seems to me to be a whole different realm if folks have things like mental health issues and personality disorders going on. I mean someone who thinks the Democrats are cannibals, or who wants and even plans to assassinate /assault someone based in political differences, etc.???

          I’ve never personally known anyone this far out there. I’m not sure what I would do in that kind of situation, especially with a family member. Sadly, start by notifying the police or perhaps consider requesting to file a 302 petition depending on the circumstances.

          On the other hand differences of opinion about mandatory universal mask mandates, hesitancy to trust the vaccine (I’m getting one as soon as I can), people wanting to exercise their right to carry, etc. that I can handle whether I fully agree or disagree.

          But, I also know it’s different and more complex with a family member. We can be hurt so much more, and it can be very difficult to be objective.

          The Serenity Prayer comes to mind. I think it also works without the God-language as well. 🙂

          These are trying and difficult times, Zoe. We need to support each other the best we can

          Like

            • Most people are Carmen, really on both sides of the political aisle. But, policies matter. Zoe and Carmen, what is the thinking in Canada concerning the canceling of the Keystone XL pipeline? Are a lot of folks on both sides of the fence concerning this? It sounds as if your prime minister is not happy.

              I’m definitely in favor of combatting and addressing climate change. But, I don’t know that an abrupt move like this is part of the best solution right now. What do you think?

              Like

            • From my perspective, cancelling the Keystone Pipeline is a good thing, environmentally. Most Albertans, on the other hand, feel decidedly different. Other parts of the country have had to come to grips with disappearing jobs for one reason or another; money needs to be going into renewables. Now, my perspective is coloured by the fact that I am retired with a pension; if I was young and working ‘out west’ I’d be of a different mind . . . And perspective is everything, eh?

              Liked by 1 person

            • The pipeline is just ONE instance of jobs vs. environment. I think many of us can see both sides. Thing is, the environment is going to affect the earth for generations to come.

              Seems to me the ideal solution would be if there were more “jobs” working in tandem with preserving the environment –instead of destroying it.

              Liked by 1 person

          • So you agree it’s not always possible to find common ground.

            Even the Proud Boys are dumping Trump as we speak. The only apologists left will be you. Those willing to say, “Well he was an ass but god bless the policies.”

            Trump started with carnage and ended with it.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Yes! I read that about the Proud Boys! Who would’ve thought!!??!

              You make a good point, Zoe. I think a LOT of people were so thrilled that he was supporting their personal preferences (as related to both politics AND religion), they ignored/pushed down/excused his ignorance and “ass-ness.”

              I wonder how long it will be before he makes headlines again. He’s definitely not one to stay in the shadows.

              Liked by 2 people

            • QAnon is flailing around like fish out of water right now as well Nan. They will desperately be looking for another Trump to hang their hats on &/or making up a new story line &/or condemn him as a dark over lord that was a wolf in sheeps clothing all along. I believe Ron who was running the one QAnon channel resigned and issues a sort of apology, like ‘oops sorry, I was wrong.’ Left in the wake are the floundering fish trying to breathe because they thought they had the truth and we all about “God’s” work.

              He’ll have to wind up the troops again to make inroads. I could see him falling by the wayside but his unstable family members may pick up the slack.

              Liked by 3 people

            • Sadly, I’ve two cousins and an uncle who consider themselves part of the “Proud Boys” movement. I don’t speak to them much because…well..because they’re idiots and racists, but they LOVED Trump. Not so anymore!!! “He’s a f**kin’ shill!” My one cousin told my sister when she spoke to him yesterday. Yep. The “Proud Boys” ain’t so proud of Trump anymore. What a tragic day for America eh.

              Liked by 4 people

            • Imagine being in their spot, Inspired. They’ve been ‘had’. Big time. I, for one, am SO glad to turn on the news and not have to listen to any mention of Mango Mussolini.

              Liked by 3 people

            • Zoe, not if people are doing things like participating in violence and refuse to follow the rule of law to address conflict. But, for me, there are many issues where I might disagree with someone and can still remain friends or find common ground. This is doubly true if the person happens to be a family member. In my own life, I pitch a pretty wide tent.

              But, it depends on the situation. Even if I were very progressive, I hope that I would not take the stance that I”m going to disown and reject every family member or personal friend who happened to vote for Trump across the board.

              There’s where I’m at, anyway. Everyone has to decide and do what seems right to them.

              Liked by 1 person

          • The sad thing is I would RATIONALLY bet that an unexpectedly large percentage (no way now of knowing since his convenient death) of our elites were buddies with Jeffery Epstein, and partook of his “services” and “merchandise”. But this includes Dear Leader, of course (which, one might speculate, may be one reason for his “suicide”).

            I have no proof, of course. But it is strange how well connect Epstein was with all kinds of people, left and right. It’s all about “alpha male” power and corruption. Even if one is a “liberal” humanitarian…or a devoted Christiaan leader.

            Liked by 1 person

        • It is always us liberals who have to reach out, to compromise, to “find common ground”. The doofus flying the Confederate flag (the traitor flag, let’s be honest here) never has to change in any way.

          Liked by 2 people

  11. If I may interject here …

    While I may not agree with Becky as regards her core beliefs, I do feel she presents her opinions with decorum. She does not make snide remarks or throw out insults. The fact that she lives by different standards than most of the people who frequent my blog has actually provided fodder for discussion — and I don’t think anyone can argue with this.

    I think (hope) most of us will concede that if every person that crosses our life’s path agreed with us on everything, it would most definitely get very boring. And I don’t want my blog to be boring! 😄

    Liked by 2 people

    • I would never claim our polite Becky is part of the Cray Cray side of the right, though. She IS calm and polite and humane and has expressed opinions that would get her expelled from the brotherhood of True Believers. Otherwise I sorta agree with Zoe.

      My own brother, for example, tries to be rational and balanced, but the crazy still seeps through too often. He is my brother, he is very smart, but the tendency to believe in conspiracies is there. (He is an anti-vaxxer w/r/t Covid, for example. Which is one reason why I believe the United States may NOT solve the Covid epidemic. Too many people claiming that they have made a scientific decision not to partake of the vaccine).

      Liked by 1 person

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