From a Facebook post …
The question was asked why people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does. This was a lady named Bev’s answer:
“You all don’t get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence. They don’t give a shit what he does. He’s just something to rally around and hate liberals, that’s it, period. He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it. The fact that people act like it’s anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.
If you keep getting caught up in “why do they not realize this problem” and “how can they still back Trump after this scandal,” then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It’s fuck liberals, that’s pretty much it.
Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they’ll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they’re not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it’s irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing. Trust me; I know firsthand what I’m talking about. That’s why they just laugh at it all because you all don’t even realize they truly don’t give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about. It’s just a side mission story that doesn’t matter anyway. That’s all just trivial details – the economy, health care, whatever. Fuck liberals.
Look at the issue with not wearing the masks. I can tell you what that’s about. It’s about exposing fear. They’re playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.
You got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that’s what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I’m not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that’s what proves they’re strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness. They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they’re in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that’s an obvious sign of weakness.
Kindness=weakness. Honesty=weakness. Compromise=weakness.
They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn’t hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it’s that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.
Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”
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I would have preferred to provide the actual source of this piece, but what I copied is all that was posted on Facebook. Nevertheless, I thought the info was worth sharing, no matter who wrote it. I think many of you will agree.
Nan's Notebook 
Works both ways, though. University of Rhode Island Professor Erik Loomis reacted to the execution of Trump supporter Aaron Danielson on the streets of Portland by an Antifa extremist by commenting, “He killed a fascist. I see nothing wrong with it.”
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One man makes a statement and it speaks for an entire group? I don’t think so.
Individuals are consistent in their reactions related to discussions they have, online and in person, with anyone who is of the “F** Liberals” mindset.
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It’s almost…laughable (if it was not so achingly ridiculous) to claim that there is any real equivalence between the wacky right and the left. Even much of the violence attributed to the protestors is Contimpro-level fakery PERPETRATED BY THE POLICE THEMSLVES. Or right wingers,.
Haywood nails it:
http://hammeroftheblogs.blogspot.com/2020/09/suckers-and-losers.html
Maybe the folks out in the streets protesting, as well-meaning as they are, might be suckers as well. They think something will “change” from their efforts. Well, you’ve been doing it all summer, and the only thing that’s changed is that the police forces of Portland, Minneapolis, Kenosha, and NYC — all cities run by liberal Democratic mayors in states run by liberal Democratic governors — are much more comfortable openly displaying their true sympathies.
They stand aside while roving white supremacist gangs barrel through crowds in their $70k trucks and attack unarmed protesters. They let assault-rifle-toting kids who have just murdered people in the street with a weapon they were not legally allowed to possess just walk on by. They have not stopped killing, beating, kidnapping. They have made their position entirely clear, and no one is even pretending to try to stop them.
Black Lives Matter? Are you fucking kidding? Your life doesn’t matter, liberal white protester. As far as the redneck death squads and their good buddies on the PD are concerned, you’re not white. They probably won’t shoot you seven times in the back, but you never know. They sure as hell won’t stop the bearded goon with the riot helmet and the Kevlar Pepe the Frog vest from stomping the shit out of you.
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But doing NOTHING ensures defeat and failure. In most cases in the case of the rounding up of the Jews in Nazi Germany the soldiers were hugely outnumbered by the victims but no one made a move to protest or try and escape. I have lost friends and family to this inane Trumpist idealogy that is off the charts! I understand about the mouth breathing scum that he has scraped from the bottom of the swamps and dragged out of the woods, but that people who masquerade as normal functioning adults laughing at his blatant A moralistic agenda while if it were a Democrat they would have been tarred, feathered and skinned alive BEFORE being nailed to a ‘Christian’ cross and burned because they were not the ‘right hand of God.’ It is the defeatist attitudes by on the fence people who are afraid to stand up for anything lest they be caught up in it that hold back the victory of anything just ever happening. Trump opened the lid to Pandora’s Box and let the demons fly. And yet he is such a coward he would sell any one of them down the river for a buck. Supreme ignorance, all of it.
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Well said. And welcome to my blog!
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Nan, there are some folks that are not willing to listen. For those folks, I like the approach the Liberal Redneck has used with QAnon. To me, he focuses on the inanity of the QAnon construct as well as the conspiracies. Yet, that may be the only way.
I have been trying to play up the many important conservative voices and groups that are against Trump, but they are laughed off, like I am by these groups. My hope is there are some who will see other Republicans have concerns.
To me, the Democrats are lousy marketers letting the Republicans dictate the message. While presidents have little to do with the economy, in 12 Democrat White Houses versus 13 GOP White Houses since 1921, the number of jobs created under the Democrat White Houses dwarfs that under Republican White Houses. But, most Americans think it is the opposite.
Trump inherits an economy in its 91 consecutive month of growth and he lets everyone know that he created it, but that is impossible. To his credit, it continued, but he did not create it.
But, none of this seems to matter. Trump’s one genius is telling his followers that everyone else is lying, just listen to him. And, they do. That is the crux of the matter right there.
Trump is a very untruthful person. He is the biggest purveyor of fake news in the US. Yet, his followers think just the opposite. My guess is he calls them “suckers” behind their back. Keith
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I always knew they followed blindly but it came home when a tv show interviewed his ‘base’ regarding his sexual comments and boasts of molesting women and they all just cheered him on, even the ‘so called’ women. I don’t care if he DID create jobs. He is a deplorable excuse for a human being. That’s the difference between the Republican party and the Democratic party. The former would do anything for the sake of money. Not all liberals are lily white and some Republicans are not kissing Pope Trump’s ring. Hell, this nut job makes me miss GW and I loathed that puppet of a president. (Not that he wasn’t a quasi decent person)
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One has to admit that when “our” side has people like Nancy Pelosi, a dessicated husk 20 years past retirement, groveling in response to “Hair Salon Gate” rather than responding with “F you. You had a rally with hundreds of maskless people. You are encouraging people to commit vote fraud. You violate the Hatch Act. Get a life, people” one can understand the visceral reaction to the mewling feebleness of the useless Democratic Party.
Not sure if you have run across the amazing over-the-top blogger at HAMMER OF THE BLOGS. He blogs frequently on the deep core character flaws in this country and a good part of our population. Heck, as a failure at “adulting” I include myself!
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It’s interesting you brought up Pelosi and her “groveling” response. I had very similar thoughts as related to both her and, as you put it, the “mewling feebleness” of the Democratic Party.
It’s fine to be temperate in your words and actions, but when faced with individuals who have absolutely no problem figuratively spitting in your face, it’s time to spit back!
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Thanks, Nan for cleaning up my mess on another page.
Thanks for posting this much.
I think most of us understand the back story of white supremacy. white nationalism, and the Klan. Bev’s notion that the KKK is limited to some small area, I think is a lack of information. Also, it is not limited to Southern states.
It is a known fact that the troglodytes approve of whatever he does. We saw “the” Plank of the RNC: “whatever Trump wants to do.”
“Why do otherwise proud and self-respecting people submit to the sheer effrontery of the tyrant, his sense that he can get away with saying and doing anything he likes, his spectacular indecency.”
Stephen Greenblatt: Tyrant, Shakespeare on Politics
Trump has proven his lack of loyalty to those who are drawn to him. Once they have satisfied his need for them, they are discarded like a Big Mac wrapper. No matter how many times they see this scenario play out, they continue to flock to him. If he manages to become the tyrant he thinks he is, none of these sycophants will gain anything. The white supremacists, the capitalists, and the Fundagelical Christians are of no further use to him.
Why? They represent or are in fact the descendants of the slavers. The church, Christians, enabled the slavers in their day. The church we have today is the descendant of that church. The capitalists have the same interest today as they did in 1778. They will support whoever will allow them to do business their way. This is the holy trinity. We liberals are hated because we continue to work toward ‘a more perfect union’. We are nor an exclusive club of muckety-mucks.
What Trump does is none of your business!
So says Kenneth Copeland:
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/01/02/televangelist-kenneth-copeland-trumps-behavior-is-none-of-your-business/
“All Christians have a duty to support Trump.” Former Christian Coalition leader Ralph Reed has written a new book in which he asserts that all Christians “have a moral obligation to enthusiastically back” Trump
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I was arguing with a friend who was repeating the “Russians are to blame” myth. No..it is our “foundational sins” coming home to roost. A good percentage of us have refused to acknowledge this.
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Why I have not called myself a Christian since I was old enough to be on my own. Talk about fake history hypocrisy. 😖
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Yes.
Years ago, before Trump and all this insanity, but after the Y2K debacle, I realized that the people I worked with were not so much ‘conservative’ as the were ‘anti-liberal.’ This, even though not one of them could tell me exactly what a liberal is (I’m moderate, IMO). My boss even implied that he would like to kill all Democrats.
Today, watching a FB yak-yak with a Trump supporter, arguing about what did, or did not, say. I realized that it does not really matter if he said it or not. I will not be voting for him. However, if I was able to prove he did say it (and someone managed that), she would deny the facts and vote for him anyway.
So, why do we bother? It must be fun. I confess, sometimes it is.
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It makes sense. certainly it’s always been obvious they felt that way.
Thing is, I have no problem with retaliation in kind when the time comes. I don’t believe in turning the other cheek or forgiving enemies. That’s all Christian shit, and I’ve never been a Christian, never in my life — that stuff has never been part of my mental make-up, and there are more and more people like me every year.
So fuck the Trumpanzees, to use their own preferred language. There’s more of us than there is of them. Once we get back in power and pass federal laws to eradicate their gerrymandering and vote-suppression scams once and for all, they’ll lose power forever. Then we tax their churches, guarantee abortion rights nationwide, enact a public option, prosecute the televangelist con men, expand the Supreme Court, ban creationism in the schools, and so on with the whole agenda. Let them bitch and whine and threaten. I don’t give a shit about their feelings, since they never have about mine.
Hope that four years of “owning the libs” was worth it, suckers. You’re going to be paying for it for a long, long time.
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We won’t see this revenge during our lifetime, sadly. The right has so gamed the system that Trump will be reelected. Easily. Long term, demographics and reality are not on their side, but they are going to get a last hurrah.
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The right has so gamed the system that Trump will be reelected. Easily.
Defeatism leads to despair. Despair leads to inaction. Inaction leads to — defeat. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Yes!! Thank you. Saying things like that is like a vote for the bastard.
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This did not age well.
Republicans are openly rigging and cheating our state elections so it will be impossible for them to lose the mid-terms, then the presidency in 2024 and the Dems are still dicking around.
We’re hosed.
By the way, Nan, the originator of the piece you quoted from FB is actually from u/xenophonsXiphos on Reddit.
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I think Bev is right. Trump’s base thrives on hatred. My first teaching job was in a small town in Georgia. The year was 1970. Lester Maddax was still the governor. The school had resisted integration until they were forced to do so, one year before I got there, so when I arrived the hatred of the white students toward black people was stunning. I was fresh out of a white liberal university, Middle Tennessee State, and I was totally unprepared for the racial hatred that I witnessed.
I found out from my landlord that I was the replacement English teacher for a young man who had been “run out of town” because he helped the blacks. “Took em food and clothes.” My landlord was incensed by that. He thought it was hilarious that students threw rocks at the teacher in class.
One senior told me the first week of school that he could enter a room with a shotgun and three shells and kill three black people and feel good about it. When I think back on that disastrous year, I realize the unmitigated hatred that I witnessed then is the same hatred we see now. It is the same.
I came close to experiencing a complete break-down, when I moved my junior students out of grammar lessons to literature. I thought–I actually believed–they would be happy about that. They rebelled. They all failed the first test out of sheer spite. I was too young to know how to handle that kind of belligerence. I was too inexperienced. One girl literally screamed, “We hate literature. There’s no way to understand it. There’s no one answer like you have in grammar, where you can just fill in the blank!”
That mentality is still very much in place. Hatred does not require thought. Here’s a line of poetry from Keats taken from his famous “Ode on a Grecian Urn.”
Beauth is Truth, Truth beauty,–that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
Now let’s put that in MAGA speech:
Hatred is Trump, Trump hatred, –that is all ye know as a MAGA, and all ye need to know.
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Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. They truly “bring it home.”
And yes … the rewording most definitely fits!
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I heard this from a Finnish professor of economics, who visited USA in the 1980’s and gave courses in one of the most highly ranked universities in the world where the student body approached him and told him, that they would not attend his lessons on Socialism. He contacted the dean of the university, but was met by a reply, that the students have a right to not to attend on a lesson, that they think is unethical. He appealed to the students by saying that they should at least know what it is, when Socialism is brought up, if they wanted to reject it. That they would look pretty stupid, if they had to explain WHY they opposed it, but did not have a clue as to what it is and how it is supposed to work. This was to no awail. Finally he warned the students, that they could not get good results from the course, if they failed such a big part of world economics and could not explain it. Nobody came to his lessons about Socialism. These rich and educated, priviledged kids who had paid to get the very best teachers from around the globe to teach them about economical systems were so affraid of one of them ideologically, that they did not even appear on the lesson. What were they affraid of? That it is like some sort of pestilense and that they might get infected? I guess there were students from other countries there too, who were too affraid of the “peer” pressure to attend and chose to have the poor grades for that course instead of being marked as Socialists just for attending. Such single minded stupidity seems overwhelming, but where does it come from?
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Decades and decades of relentless training and brainwashing. That is where it comes from.
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I sincerely believe that taken as a whole, humans tend to react against “intrusion” of any sort when their shared communal belief system, be it political, religious, or cultural, feels the slightest tremor of threat. The intrusive threat may be real, i.e. the Trojan leaders staring over the wall of Troy and seeing a thousand Greek war ships headed their way, or it may be imagined: an economics professor announcing, via his course outline, an intention to teach a unit on Socialism.
The intrusion becomes a threat to an inherited personal/cultural identity and hence something to be resisted one way or the other: abstinence, protest or violence. The classic Biblical story of the Tower of Babel comes to mind. God is horrified to see that humans are linguistically united. One would think that God would champion language unification—doesn’t it allow humans and gods to speak the same language? But universal language becomes a threat. He says, “they all have one language…and now nothing will be restrained from them” (KJV). The intrusive tower will reach to heaven–what next? In order to maintain his identify as God, which is synonymous with Power, God renders them helpless. He and his gang go down and “confound their language.” In an interesting reversal, God does to the humans what the students do to the econ professor, he renders the perceived threat powerless.
GOD (students) thwarts the BUILDER’S (professor’s) intention because they BUILDERS (professor) are a perceived threat to his GOD’S (students’) desired world order.
So, is “stupidity” a product of peer pressure? Yes, but to the extent that it enforces one’s adherence to a larger identity. The blind adherence proceeds from a mindset, a wish to belong to a particular social order, even in the face of blunt truth, i.e., Trump supporters who believe the proven whoremonger Trump is a devoted family man.
The miracle of this country is that it is a functioning contradiction. It’s a mix of competing (sometimes violently so) cultures, sub-cultures, races, and ethnic identities. That’s why, I’m convinced Christian evangelicals and a large number of MAGA folk hate a unified democracy. Following Trump’s example, they champion divisiveness as a means to maintain Power. With the even greater irony that they are all playing into the greedy hands of the capitalist overlords, the billionaires.
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This is a great comment
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Thank you! 🙂
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We have just had a moment of silence for the 9/11 victims.
Religious fanaticism.
Socialism is not the problem. Our problem is capitalism without regulation or restraint. Our problem is allowing religion to direct our society and our legislation. Our problem is thinking that giving equality to all citizens somehow impinges on ours.
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Yes! to all of the above.
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Your last sentence sums things up quite well. Great comment overall.
I find it interesting that I’m seeing more and more reference to “the elites” throughout cyberspace. Maybe people are finally waking up to who is truly behind all that’s been going on. The next step is to do something about it …
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I totally agree. We could start by making them pay taxes–like the rest of us!
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Wow! What a mind-shattering thought!!! 👏👏😍
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Except in their hatred of “the elites” they are not targeting The Owners. They are targeting the intellectuals who complain about The Owners. Before I really feel strongly about a Democratic Party candidate, I want to hear them propose a drastic reform of the tax laws and governing structures pertaining to hedge funds. Was just reading how the hedge funds and private equity basically destroy an already problematic industry-the nursing home industry. One firm was so low on staffing that resident’s toenails curled inward from lack of trimming. Meanwhile, the profits and fees and interest on debt accumulates, and much of it goes to some of the most obscenely wealthy people in the country. As well as remaining pension funds who are perhaps promising too much.
I have no interest in living to the age where I am stuck in such a place. I will start “saving the pills” eventually.
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it goes to some of the most obscenely wealthy people in the country.
And this, dear Brian, is the story of America — no matter which party is in charge. But have no fear! It will soon “trickle down” to the less fortunate. Providing they’re still alive.
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Those people are responding to capitalist propaganda. Republicans, and to a lesser extent Democrats, have been using this for decades. They use fear tactics to drive the voting public into bowing to their policies. Capitalism has control of our government right now. They have turned the National Labor Relations Board into a weapon of capitalism and reduced the unions to near oblivion. They pit black against white and right against left. They keep us reeling from social and economical turmoil. Yet a large number continue to vote for the same people who are standing on their necks.
The Supreme Court and state courts, a GOP legislature that cares nothing for their constituents, and a president bent on serving our enemies, all work together to circumvent the constitution. The Fundamental Evangelical Christians embrace that system and lead their sheep into the slaughter. If someone hasn’t noticed, the same Jesus who approved of and promoted slavery is the same Jesus who now embrace this administration and all it stands for. They have given us this Ballardian state and will work to keep it so. The church always follows the capital and the crown. An unholy trinity.
How long have the Black people strived with this system? They have seen legislation upon legislation passed that is directly against their benefit. Its very nature is to keep them on the fringe of American society. Too many of the White people, even the more liberal, have allowed it to happen. Now, look where we are. Our middle class is gone. The poor Whites are red-lined along with the Blacks.
If we can be honest we see that Black people are not the problem. It is the white people; the white nationalist, the white supremacist, and the white Christians. It is not the White that hurts. White is alright. It is hatred. The hatred that is bred into us. Just like religion, it is there from the cradle, sometimes directly nurtured, sometimes just allowed to be absorbed from the environment. Some of us grow out of it or at least try to.
James Baldwin:
The value of a human being is never indicated by the color of his skin; the value of a human being is all that I hold sacred, and I know that I do not become better by making another worse. One need not read the New Testament to discover that. One need only read history and look at the world—one need only, in fact, look into one’s own mirror.
J. Baldwin
Glaude Jr., Eddie S. Begin Again (p. 114). Crown. Kindle Edition.
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The murder of George Floyd, I suppose because for obvious reasons, brought out some really telling responses in the white community. I had one confrontation with a person ranting because of the protests which followed. His argument was that ‘those people’ should go through the normal process to address their concerns. I explained that the protest was because a man had been murdered. The cause was the murder. The protest was the effect. There is no effective ‘normal’ process for the black community. The only way they can get the White people’s attention is to go public. They have been waiting for 400+ years to have their grievances addressed. White people pay attention when there is breaking glass, smoke, and fire visited on their communities. They are less concerned when it happens to ‘those others’.
No. I do not promote riots and destruction, but its always an element of protests.
“The purpose of the Constitution is to restrict the majority’s ability to harm a minority.”
James Madison
Our founding Fathers thought that freedom from oppression from the monarchy was worth laying their lives on the line. There were often black men in the ranks. Our war against England was financed by loans and grants from other nations, France being the most liberal. The industry of the plantation owners was one major contributor to satisfying that debt, but the industry was carried on the backs of Negro slaves. The founders secured their own liberty and then subjected the blacks to a level of oppression and abuse that none of them had ever experienced under British rule.
Fredrick Douglas
“The slave auctioneer’s bell and the church-going bell chime in with each other, and the bitter cries of their heart-broken slave are drowned in the religious shouts of his pious master. …The slave prison and the church stand near each other. The clanking of fetters and the rattling of chains in the prison, and the pious psalm and solemn prayer in the church, may be heard at the same time. …The dealer gives his blood-stained gold to support the pulpit, and the pulpit, in return, covers his infernal business with the garb of Christianity. Here we have religion and robbery the allies of each other.”
There is that Holy Trinity again: government, capitalist, and church.
Hate is the hammer that drives the wedge of division between society’s factions. Trump has been very capable as a divider. He has made the worst of our society his henchmen. We saw the White armed militias march into statehouses, and not a peep from Trump, GOP, or law enforcement.
Yes, we are hated. We embrace minorities including religious, LGBTQ+, all pigmentations, disabilities, and ethnos. We are known by other names and character traits others give us. But remember:
What you call me doesn’t change who I am.
Dan “Diego” Piraro
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The part of US population, that has been marked black as an accident of birth and thus treated differently and worse has been demonstrating for decades and waiting for centuries to get the same rights as the part of the US population deemed white by a fortunate accident at birth. It has been promised over and over again, that the USA is the country of equality and democracy, but it is not. Rioting and burning down places is not a natural part of demonstration, it is a cry of help, frustration and a mark of growing anger. If this anger and frustration is not met with political tools, there will be blood.
Why did the USA go to war against the Nazies? The Nazies had a hard time to understand it. The US had a racial segregation system as apparent in the way Nazies had treated the Jews by that time. The attitudes about “apartheid” were the very same. Germany had extended it’s influence over it’s own borders by military means, but so had the US. A Canadian tankist said once in an interview, that they were fighting the Nazies, because they wanted to stop Germany from conquering the world, but why for heaven’s sake was that important? Great Britain had at the same time conquered far more greater reaches of the world. Why was not stopping them worth while?
There was that “Liberal scum” Roosevelt in power in the US, who wanted to stop the Nazies because he saw them as what they were – right wing extremists. Conservatives who saw themselves as so righteous in their actions, that they were ready to change everything to make the world as they thought it ought to have been. A sort of Neo-Con agenda. Nazies were (and are today) people to whom reality meant nothing and equality was a red flag. A critical mass of ordinary middle-class Germans with traditional values were deluded to support the Nazies to the bitter end, because ultimately they shared the values of the Nazies. Roosevelt was even ready to make a pact with the Communists of the Soviet Union to achieve his goal to stop the lunacy of the Nazies.
It is easy to say, that race does not mean anything, when one is white and lives a priviledged life, but when one is white and that is the only priviledge one has, it means the world in a society built by and for the priviledged classes. Race is only one division line between the priviledged and the pariah.
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I don’t agree with you, Dan. Do you know that there are actually more unarmed white people killed at the hands of the police than unarmed Black folks? It’s true. And, actually, we don’t even know that the murder of George Floyd was motivated be racism at all. Somehow, it’s just assumed.
This in spite of the fact that, sadly, disproportionally speaking, African Americans commit a far greater share of homicide and other violent crimes. White folks are actually at greater risk of being assaulted by African-Americans than the other way around. Of course, the people that commit these crimes, either way, still make up a minority of both communities. Most people, of all races, want peace and order. As MLK stated, we don’t want to be divided by race, and want to judge people solely by the content of their character.
It is never acceptable for people to riot, loot, and burn down the town or randomly assault police officers. If we lose the rule of law, we lose everything, and will descend into chaos and anarchy. To my mind ,there is zero excuse for it.
I can tell you flat out that I don’t hate anyone. And, neither do the vast majority of more politically conservative or libertarian folks out here of all races BTW.
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Hatred of weakness has a nother name. In political terms it is called Fascism. Fascism is all about feeling weak and trying to cover it up (even from one self) by hatred of weakness.
For example the homophobe, does not subscribe to being affraid of homosexuals, because he thinks he has overcome his fear by hatred. Hatred, however is a direct result of fear.
Anybody, despite their political affiliations may be affraid, and as a result one may even feel hatred. The question here is how to deal with those emotions. If one is affraid of their emotions, then one succumbs to hatred as the only means of escaping the fear. The right-wing people anywhere, be they for Trump or Taliban fear the constant change of the world and their reaction is fear, because their fear stems from not having the tools to meet with the change. They have been told, that there once was a world that did not change and that is the golden age they would want to return to. Only, it is often enough the self promoting selfish people who abuse their fear, because they can be fed with all sorts of lies about how selfishness is actually a virtue. This resonates with the world view of a person who has no means to deal with their emotions.
I have no solution to the problem, because the damage of authoritarian indoctrination and selfish values is usually done to a person already in very young age. It takes a special individual to overcome such problems, if they are part of one’s uppringing.
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Damn liberals, scourge of the Earth, blight on all we hold dear, socialist scum, manipulative purveyors of propaganda, Godless sinners who whine over equal rights for blacks, women and homosexual deviants. Trust me, this Canadian gets it.
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Hello Nan. As I was reading what Bev wrote I was thinking how damaged these people are. I also felt they are deplorable for the joy they take in being so broken emotionally, how they revel in it. I realize that for them the emotion and the emotional satisfaction they get are the most important things in their life. They run entirely on their feelings. That is why reasoning with them doesn’t work well as you have to get past the reward the emotions give them with out effort on their part. Thinking things out, reasoning can be hard, self enlightening, and emotionally draining. The deplorables don’t want that, they want to feel the emotions surge. Yet they feel superior? Hugs
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[…] Trolling Snowflake Liberals [Image from Fox News] From Nan’s Notebook: […]
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Reblogged this on silverapplequeen and commented:
This has been true LONG before trump. He just capitalized on it. I think it’s telling if I have a political conversation with someone, they always tell me, “Oh, you’re a liberal” & I have to tell them, “No, I’m not”. But I have to remember that most people don’t understand political nuance & rely on labels, even if they’re faulty, to put it mildly. I also think that most people feel so powerless in their personal lives that they have to be able to say “F” someone … even if it harms themselves, their neighbors & the entire nation & only increases their powerlessness. Perhaps it’s a kind of addiction. Certainly it’s easier than thinking about things in a rational, logical & mature manner.
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Liberals! HA!! I hates ’em! Can’t stand ’em! They’re ALL snowflakes! They’re not tough, alpha males like Vladimir Putin–you know, the guy who has Trump’s lips firmly squeezed onto his anal sphincter 24/7. No. Libs are cry babies! They develop things like “bone spurs” to avoid the draft and hide in bunkers when protesting is going on in their areas. Yep. Snowflake libtard pansies! Trump would NEVER point fingers at others for mistakes he’s made like the libtards do. He’s a true man! Also, libtards talk about shit like “equal rights under the law” and “racial justice”. PANSIES!!! They aren’t brave and strong like Princess Donald. Sissies! (BTW, I’ve a few cousins who are hard core white nationalists and they adore Trump because he 1. Hates da libs, and 2. He hates da brown and black skinned people like they do. So, this post is spot on, IMO. It is not confusing why people love Trump, even after he shits all over our dead soldiers graves. They love him because he is like them. He hates those they hate. And no matter what he destroys in his process of making himself Princess of America, it doesn’t matter, as long as his hate stays the same as theirs.)
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Hi Nan. I think your Facebook quote would not represent 99% Trump supporters. I see these kinds of mischaracterizations on both sides. It seems to me that people like Trump because he’s NOT a politician, like Pelosi or McConnell. They are proof that both parties need term limits!
Don’t underestimate people’s absolute hatred of the so-called DC “swamp.” Biden would be the “swamp monster” having been there 47 years, Nancy is the queen. 🙂 Biden really should’ve stayed retired after being VP. I personally liked Tulsi Gabbard in the primaries, but the DNC quickly kicked her to the curb, like they always do with Bernie Sanders every election year.
You many be aware of the #walkaway movement started by Brandon Straka. There are now tens of thousands of liberal Democrats who have walked away from the party. Both parties have some serious problems and people are fed up with the status quo, and Trump seems to be the bull in the china shop right now.
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Hello, Mel. Surprised to see you commenting on this … 😮
In any case, this — Both parties have some serious problems — I can agree with. While I lean to more liberal thinking, I’m not particularly happy with the way things have been, and are, going — on either side of the fence. Or perhaps I should say wall since the communication between the two seems to have hit same.
And yes, as others have expressed, term limits definitely need to become part of our political system. Too many of the the “old fogies” simply don’t seem to realize that things in this nation (and the world) are simply not the same as they were oh-these-many years ago.
I have only heard about the movement you mentioned — I’ve done no research so can’t offer opinion/comment.
Perhaps the FB post was an extreme (although I think some of my readers might dispute that), but there are most definitely individuals in the Trump Camp that feel and talk this way. And many have (literally) sold their soul to Trump.
Thanks for stopping by.
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The Trump supporters and many Republicans less keen to support him as a person alike, are affraid of Socialism and blame the Democratic party for having been somehow hijacked by Socialists, but it is not.
To me, looking form the outside, it looks like what the USA would really need was an actual Socialist party. A party that would bring the actual Socialist agenda of social justice and basic needs of the people to be fulfilled, to the political table. Now, poor uneducated people are angry at social justice warriors, who threaten the only priviledge of being “white” they have in a society of inequality built for priviledged people. Yet, if the Democratic party was now to divide into a Liberal and a Socialist parties, the system would provide both of these a loss in the face of the Republican party united behind a goon like Trump.
The two party system is a bit of a travasty of democracy. Trump runs by blaming the “elite”, when he himself is a pureblood representative of an elite, having being born into an elite family, having gone through the elite schools, having awoided draft to war by typical elite scam and corruption, having mingled with the money & political elite of both parties of the country for decades and now supporting tax cuts for the elites in his policy. The entire MAGA ideology is all about the US (white) citizens being some sort of better and more deserving people (an elite), than the rest of the world population. Fascism is very much about some people being supposedly more deserving than others. So is Capitalism. It may be so, that some deserve more than others, but does that mean the rest can be deprived of basic rights and needs? It seems the US voter “knows” who is their enemy, it is just that they have no clue as to who that enemy is.
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Good points on fear of socialism (or Marxist radicals), rautaaky. I think people are afraid of that. And I agree that political partisanship actually hurts any meaningful dialogue. Actually, the founding forefathers warned against making political factions. Some form of free market capitalism with social programs would be a good mix for the US, like Norway. The problem is, our country is much more complex, so it’s not so easy.
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Excellent comment, rautakyy! I so wish more of the people living in this country could/would step away from their ingrained prejudices and be willing to look and discuss other options. But alas. as Mel says, the complexity (and the history) of the U.S. system makes such actions extremely difficult, if not impossible.
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Perhaps it does, perhaps it will not. Norway is surprisingly complex country when you get to know it. There is racism even in Norway. But dividing people into racial blocks is a very arbitrary method of making society more complex. It is a tool in the hands of the rich to divide the poor to fight each other, so that they will not have time to question why some have so much when some have barely enough to survive and some do not have even that.
Even in Norway a Fascist party appeared as if out of nowhere and started to make headway among right-wing conservatives who shared values (Patriotism, Nationalism, Christianity, Capitalism and the general idea, that not everybody share equal human value, as some are more deserving than others) just prior to WWII and suddenly with a bit of outside help they were the sole party in power. One would think, that having learned the lessons Norvegians had during WWII would have taught them at very least not to support right wing nationalists, because ultimately they are going to be the first to betray the nation if there is personal gain to be achieved, but alas no. Today there is this “immigration critical” party in Norway who share almost all the values of their former Fascist party and indeed one of their parliamentary representatives has promoted Trump to be a nominee for the Nobel peace prize. Perhaps Trump deserves it. It seems that being a US president who does not start a new war is enough for one to be granted that prize.
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“Perhaps Trump deserves it. It seems that being a US president who does not start a new war is enough for one to be granted that prize.”
Have to give him a bit of credit for at least that much. Unlike the Peace Prize President, old Hope and Change, whose DEMOLITION of North Africa (LIbya) (which the War Sow also strongly supported) is as much a war crime as anything George W Bush did.
Or for that matter, the Sainted Peanut Farmer “Jimmy C” who thinks that nailing together a few houses for the poors can make up for the decades of death in Afghanistan (Bipartisan Death, I might note) and his selling ammo to the Indonesian generals as they slaughtered 1/3 of the East Timorese.
Where rautakky errs is his description of the American political system as a “two party” system. It is not. It is a One Party State worthy of any “Marxist” autocracy. We have One Party. The Party of War. The Party of Wall Street. The Party of White Supremacy. Sure….the slightly less sociopathic wing of said party sometimes makes feeble gestures towards other ideas, but the Defense budget still gets bumped up, the tax system is still goosed so that the Vampire Squids earn even more money, and the shrill, never-ending Leni Riefenstahl level propaganda machine keeps churning out the Manufactured Consensus.
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I’m so sick of that argument, Mel. Politics is serious business. It requires people with skills and experience, this is more of the worship of the amateur, disdain for thought and intelligence that mars American culture. Negotiation, compromise, politics is hard work, far away from being on a television show burbling “You’re Fired”. It is also a FASCIST idea, that the STRONG UNTHINKING MAN OF ACTION is somehow what we need rather than mere….ugh…politicians. How well has Fascism worked, Mel?
The idea that a rank amateur is somehow better suited to running a complex society of 300 million people than a “gasp” politician strikes me as ludicrous. Especially a rank amateur who has been a corrupt failure at so many things. (The reason for his Russian connection is this BUIZNESSMAN outsider was so bankrupt none of the usual banks would give him money)
Throw in the reality that Trump has not drained any swamp but has in fact dredged up some of the worst, fetid, rotting corpses from said swamp. He has surrounded himself in many cases with the “worst of the worst” . Yes I know, both siderism rules and we have to mention that the Democratic Party is pretty much worthless right now. But what are these “walk away” people going to actually accomplish? They are all all affluent professionals who probably will not really suffer all that much as the country (inevitably) spirals downwards.
Every empire falls. I am 57…I have no kids….why should I even care at this point? The American political class, the owners of wealth, heck a good plurality of the population, are perfectly OK with what this THING is doing in the White House.
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$Amen$ to that, brother! BTW, Trump IS a politician! Every single breath he takes. Every single sentence he utters. EVERY single thought that enters his Putin-loving, anti-Christian mind REEKS of politics and political, crap-filled maneuvering. The very fact that he has blinded fools claiming, “Oh, Princess Donald is NOT a politician. He’s an average American princess who will do the country good,” IS political maneuvering! He has brain-washed millions of fools to think otherwise, but, believe you me, Princess Donald is as political as ANY politician has EVER been! One could argue he’s pretty damned good at it, too, because of the number of blind fools he has worshiping and following him AND his politics. The guy is walking scum.
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Hello inspiredbythedivine1. tRump is transactional in that everything he does has to benefit himself in some way. Sadly too many elected officials think that is also the goal of politics, to benefit themselves in every way. If they have to sacrifice the voter or the lower incomes to gain more for themselves, they are OK with it. Hugs
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Yep. Well said.
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Fascinating and scary post….I just can no longer imagine what the future might hold. It seems to be coming to a very big head.
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Wow Nan…I thought you hadn’t posted in awhile and I’ve just discovered somehow I was not following you anymore…don’t know how that happened, but I’ve got a lot of backup reading to do today. Your blog is one of the very best.
I hit follow again, so hopefully I’m back in business.😊
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Ahhhh Mary … you made my day … Your blog is one of the very best. 😍 Thank you!!! I do try.
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I certainly don’t hate politically progressive people. I just think they are misinformed. These Trump supporters that this man talks about sound purely crazy to me. I don’t even know anybody like this who supports Trump.
It’s hard to reach across this political divide. I have a hard time understanding how folks can support Mr. Biden. He has all kinds of questionable things going on both now and in the past. Even his running mate did not seem to have a very high opinion of him during the debates, and yet, he chose her as his running mate. Go figure. Among other things, I worry about his cognitive capacity. I can’t imagine Mr. Biden going into negotiations with a China or Iran. He probably would not last for a four year term.
I’m not trying to be unkind, just honest. Maybe our perceptions depend in part on who we are or who we hang out with, or even the area of the country.
I think there really isn’t a “they.” People are more complex.
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Becky, you finally realized what many others have been aware of for quite some time … our perceptions are most definitely dictated by our background, our friends, and where we live — and all those things come through in your comments, as well as those in the FB quote.
As for Biden, speaking personally, I would vote for Mickey Mouse if it meant getting Trump out of the White House!
Those of us who support democratic values may not be overwhelmed by Biden, but he is FAR more honest, more intelligent, more compassionate, and considerably more knowledgeable about foreign affairs than the
idiotindividual that currently occupies the Oval Office. You may feel his “cognitive capacity” isn’t 100%, but IMO, he makes a hellava lot more sense than Trump (especially when he rambles off-script).In any case, I appreciate your contributions — even when you know you’re in enemy territory.
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I agree, Nan. I actually totally agree with Becky’s poor opinion of Joementum, the Senator from MBNA. But Trump is such a unique threat that ANYONE is better. Even as I disparage the status quo and the Democratic Party.
(How she could complain about mental capacity and corruption as a justification for voting for TRUMP leaves me flabbergasted, but that may just be me. I find it incomprehensible)
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And i disagree with your use of the term “idiot” to describe Trump. The proper term is “THING” As in
“That THING in the White House cares only about personal enrichment and ego stroking.”
Just a minor style correction. 🙂 🙂
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Instead of “thing”, I simple call him “poo-poo face.” Here it is used in a sentence: “The orange poo-poo face in the White House has called dead soldiers ‘losers’ and ‘suckers’ recently AND has admitted on tape to lying about the severity of covid-19 to US citizens. And yet, poo-poo face STILL has millions of people clinging to each of his words as if he were a divine prophet spreading God’s great words. Amazing how many people love poo-poo face. Amazing and very, vary sad.”
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as if he were a divine prophet … If he is seen as a “divine prophet,” what does that say about the existence of the god that so many think exists? 😂🤣😅
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Great question.
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You’ll never be my enemy, Nan. 🙂 You have to know that. We just don’t agree. Time will tell.
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Hello Becky, you wrote: ” I can’t imagine Mr. Biden going into negotiations with a China or Iran.” Why not? Do you honestly think he could fare even worse than Mr. Trump has? I expect you can explain this to me. I an not from the US (and can not vote for your president) and I sometimes am lost as to what is going on in your politics. It however is meaningfull to us on the other side of the globe, as the US is the single most strongest nuclear power on the face of the planet and one of the most significant economic engines also.
I mean, Mr. Trump has failed totally with negotiations with China and Iran, has he not? He withdrew the USA from the Iranian nuclear development restriction treaty, wich has led Iran to return and even fasten their program. Has it not? He has openly blamed China (and sometimes the EU) for making up the global warming, as if it was only a ruse to make US economy weak, has he not? He should be among the most well informed men in the world but he acts as if he did not even care what he is told by the best possible experts on these issues. He has often brought up the Chinese human rights issues (that are a serious matter), but not done anything about the evident racistically motivated police violence in his own country. He has even encouraged his own supporters to vigillantism, that has led to deaths, and one of his underaged supporters to be arrested for manslaughter. Is police violence not a serious human rights issue?
In addition he has withdrawn from international treaties such as the one restricting nuclear weapons between the US and Russia and now Russia is rearming their nuclear capabilities with far more modern weaponsystems than any developed in the US so far. Did you not know about this? Trump has withdrawn the US support for WHO in the middle of a global pandemic, that has hit the US very hard. If there lies fault in the WHO, then surely the organization needs more help and not less? To cut their funding when they are battling against the pandemic and are the only help many third world countries even get, must be the worst and most stupid descision, regardless of wether they have done a good or a bad job? Trump even tried to downplay the danger of COVID-19 and when that failed, he started to blame the Chinese for it, as if it were a deliberate conspiracy, without any evidence he could muster to back up his wild claims. What sort of diplomacy is that supposed to be? All the while the Chinese seem to have been able to restrict the spread of the disease, same can hardly be said about the USA? He has failed his main political promise of building the wall on the southern border, altough it is quite unclear to me, what was that all about, as it does not really do anything. Most drugs and immigrants come to the US by boat or plane and a wall like that is more like a speed bump even to those who cross the border by car or foot. Do you understand what the wall was supposed be for?
To me as an outsider, it is strange how you there seem to always be voting for the least bad candidate, when we in my country usually vote for the best candidate among very good ones. How the US political campaigns seem not to be about what good would the candidate concretely do and represent, rather than just cheap jargon and imagemarketting and most of all slander of the other candidate and attempts to spread fear how they would be a bad leader. How is it that in such a big country, you can not seem to be able to find several good candidates, but instead it seems you always have to choose the lesser evil. I mean, our current president was never my choise and I did not vote for him, because I thought there were better candidates than him, but I sure can tell you that he has made a great job as our current president.
There is good things I have to say about Mr. Trump, like that he has achieved the seemingly hard effort for any US president not to start a nother war abroad (to further your national interrests on the suffering of some third world nation), but as for the economy, care for citizens lifes and rights he has totally botched, much like he has botched most of his own businesses. The business falls, but somehow he himself manages to float like… He has increased military spending and even founded US space force, wich for the life of me I can not understand what it is for and especially how is it supposed to work, when the US military would have to hitchike on Russian or Chinese spaceships even to get on orbit. If it could transfer some of the enormous amounts of your taxpayer money spend on relatively ineffective military to space programs, that would be good, but as a general rule I would see militarization of space as a bad way to go…
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Double … triple … quadruple LIKE!!! Good job rautakyy!! 👏👏👏
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Hi, there. I’ll be in and out over the weekend. So, have to kind of respond in piecemeal. I feel the reason that President Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal is because he felt in the long term it would not really prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear capacity, and that overall it was not in the best interest of the US. Here is the link to an article that shares this perspective and explains the rationale behind sanctions instead.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-withdrawal-iran-nuclear-deal-has-been-vindicated-ncna1003091
Rautaky, I’m very pro immigration, and have actually worked with immigrants and refugees with ESL. But, I also feel that for safety and economic reasons, the US needs to have control of the border. To me, the rationale behind the wall was simply to give law enforcement one more tool to deter and help limit illegal immigration. Obviously, it can’t be the total solution. As you’ve pointed out, gang members, and drug as well as human smugglers can find other ways. But, I think at certain places along the border it is a needed and useful tool. Also, the more we limit illegal immigration, the more we can actually have the resources to support folks who have legitimate asylum claims, and others who are willing to immigrate here legally. Don’t believe for a minute, that everyone who is in favor of securing the border is xenophobic and against immigrants, Rautaky. The situation is more complex than that. This is a whole discussion in and of itself.
You see what has happened in our country is that people have become so polarized on both the left and right, that they can’t really be open and talk to each other to come up with solutions. Each side thinks the worse about the other, and oftentimes the stereotypes don’t really match objective reality.
How do I know this? Well, among other things, I belong to a Christian church where a number of the folks, and some people that I count as friends don’t agree with my political views. I have conservations with them, and know who they are as people. And, of course, they know me also.
More later.
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Thanks Becky, that was an interresting article. I hope you have had a great weekend and I am looking forward to your continued answer to my questions. I must admit, that I have found it hard to find the rationale behind the policy Trump has taken toward Iran. I asked you, because I think you have these things figured out and that you are not simply motivated by the F*** Liberals attitude as described by the topic post. So, thank you once again for explaining it all from your perspective to me.
Now, having read the article, it seems to me, that what Trump has employed here is not a madman in action (as I must admit I first thought), but an age old conservative political tool, to appeal to the fear of his own constituents by creating an image of protection by sheer use of force. It may even be, that he and his advisors really expect this policy to work. After all their opponents in Iran are also conservatives who play the same game of religion, tradition, fear and hatred of the outsider on their subjects and promises of protection by shows of force.
However, it was not long ago, when Trump almost started a war with Iran. The very least he did was, that he knowingly did gambled with the possibility of escalation to war by assasinating Suleimani, a high ranking Iranian general (by the way without whose help by providing the US military with intelligence on how to conquer Afghanishtan, that war might have been even more of a disaster than it has been for the US and the international coalition). Iran decided to retaliate the assasination with missiles, and by luck one Iranian missile hit an airliner, that then turned the public eye from the possibility of war and both parties could withdraw without losing face and pretending that by a show of force they had somehow protected their citizens, even though that very show of force almost led to a disasterous war.
It is a dangerous notion and utterly alien to reality, that by this sort of embargo Trump is using, Iranian military capabilities could have been much reduced within one, two or even several years. China buys oil from Iran and China needs Iranian oil. China is the most powerfull conventional military might today in the world (altough the US has the most expensive military, much like your healthcare – expensive but inneffective, because the shareholdes need to get their profits and those profits are sacred, even more sacred than the wellbeing and safety of the nation). It is a dangerous notion, that the US economy could withstand yet another war, even if it was against a lesser enemy than Iran. Capitalism as an ideology has made the US economy fragile & military very brittle. So much so, that as a result of couple of lonstanding wars against some of the poorest of the poor developing countries, the US economy seems unable to pay for the most basic healthcare for the citizens. Is this not so? I hear thousands and thousands of people in the USA yearly suffer a bankrupcy for not being able to take care of their medical bills. Trump has appointed big medical company chairman (basicly a lobbyist for the medical companies) as his minister for healthcare and that for example insuline price has doubled during his administration, without him doing anything about it. Is that correct? That ordinary US citizens travel to Canada to buy their insuline, because the price of such basic medical aid is regulated there by law (as it is in any other civilized nation). Or is it an ideological choise, that even though you as a nation could afford it, thousands of people are simply expected to die, because they are too poor to buy basic medical aid and treatment? What sort of an ideology is that?
Anyway, I find Trump’s foreign policy with Iran totally failed so far, since after his withdrawing from the treaty Iran has grown their nuclear program and has even hastened it in comparrison to what it was before the treaty (perhaps they fear the US will strike before they have the nuclear capabilities, since your country has become very unpredictable during this current presidency). There is really only two ways to stop Iran from having nuclear capabilities. One is an all out war against Iran where their government is overthrown and a new one with whom a treaty is signed about them not developing nuclear capabilities emerges, or by having negotiations with the current Iranian government for them to give up their nuclear program for military capabilities is achieved. Or can you think of a third one? The article you linked sure does not present any…
A nother thing the article did not really discus, but I hope you have the patience to explain to me, is how Mr. Biden might fare even worse, than Trump has? That is, even if we would think that all things in the article mentioned, were really true and not ideologically coloured. Biden really is not familiar to me, even though he used to be the vice president of USA. He does seem a bit colourless, odourless and tasteless, but is this picture fair? Do you think he would faint during a diplomatic meeting, give in on any demands the other side presented, or what?
Perhaps you do have many people in the USA who are not xenophobic even though they support the wall and tighter restrictions on especially illegal immigration. I am willing to believe this about you, since you seem sincere. Here in Finland one does not need to discuss long with any of our “immigration critical” people to find out, that almost all of them have some prejudices about foreigners and good many of them are openly racist. Most of those prejudices are really silly and not founded on any facts, but there are some clever demagogues and populist oppurtinists in politics here, who are very good at using and enflaming those fears as a means to political power. Have you seen anything similar there in the US?
I have noticed, that there is a very deep partisan division in the USA today and because of it, it is difficult to find objective analysis of any situation from there. A sincere dicussion, such as the one we are having seems like the best option to find out what is going on and what people think. I honestly hope that a new leadership arises, that can unite the United States again. I do not see how that person could ever be Trump, who seems to feed on division, but I have no clue either, if Biden could fare much better. So, it seems to me, that once again you are voting for the lesser evil and not for the greater good.
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Wow…superb comment…
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Hi, again, Ratasky, to comment on some other stuff. I personally don’t feel that Trump is opposed to police reform when needed or in taking appropriate actions against bad cops. But, I don’t feel that Trump feels that in general the police are racist, or that the answer is to defund or as Biden might put it, “divert” money from the police. In trying to be objective, I really have to agree with this opinion, especially with the homicide and violent crime rate soaring in so many major cities.
On top of that, even if I thought the the police were horrible and racist across the board, I wouldn’t think to riot and loot, burning innocent people’s business, or randomly attempting to kill police officers. One thing is for sure, no one who is doing these kind of things, or those who make excuses for them, is likely to be voting for Mr. Trump. The ironic thing is that they are actually increasing his chances for reelection IMO. It really doesn’t make alot of sense, Ratasky. No one is going to be persuaded to make any kind of lasting change about anything based in threats of violence or extortion.
You would suppose that if someone thought the police were all awful, they would want more funding for better training, and to hire the “cream of the crop,” not talking about defunding or doing away with the prisons. But, what do I know? 🙂
Concerning this whole Russian thing… My understanding is that Russia has not been living up to it’s end of the nuclear deal like forever. This ultimately is the reason the US withdrew, with the support of our NATO allies.
You know, I suppose we could make the case that there might be another way to deal with all this, ditto, the situation with the WHO and China. But, let’s face it, none of these actions occurred in a vacuum. There’s always a reason.
I can’t speak to your comments relating to the Space Force. I just don’t know enough about this.
Overall, despite all of Trump’s flaws, and there are plenty, I feel that he is truly for peace in the world, and has worked to keep the US our of foreign conflicts. He’s actually been nominated for a Nobel Peace prize. I think he has done some great things with prison reform, money for Black colleges, opportunity zones in the cities, etc.
On his watch, the economy was booming before Covid, of course. Minority unemployment was the lowest that it’s ever been.
I feel that with his business background, he is definitely the best person running to preside over a total economic recovery.
On the other hand, to be totally honest and transparent, neither of these candidates Biden or Trump would have been my first choice. in the beginning. I can still see plenty of problems on both sides of the aisle. But, we live in a flawed and imperfect world, and have to work with what we’ve got.
Happy that things are great in your country. Best wishes to you, Ratasky. We will see what happens with our next election.
Pax.
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You are SUCH a Trumpster, Becky, that at times, it’s VERY difficult to read your comments.
I strongly disagree with you that Trump “is truly for peace in the world.” Trump doesn’t even know what the word means! The definition that I’m referring to is this: Harmonious relations; freedom from disputes. I have to LOL that you would even give 2 seconds of thought that Trump wants peace … whether in the world or anywhere else. His actions and words defy the meaning of the word!
I would love to address your “economy” comment but there are others in the crowd that are far more knowledgeable on this than me. Suffice it to say, you have been blindsided.
As for your “businessman” remark … obviously you’ve never done any background on Trump’s business dealings. You should take some time and do the research. Corrupt is the word that comes to mind.
Biden isn’t perfect. I would have preferred another candidate to end up where he is. Nevertheless, if nothing else, his ethics and understanding of world issues put him far, far ahead of the “other guy.”
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Oh … and one more thing … try to get people’s “handles” correct. Look again. It isn’t “Ratasky.” He’s not Russian.
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For some reason, rautakyy wrote the following response to Becky but it was “sent” to another blog … ??!?! I couldn’t figure out how to fix it, so I’m copying his comment here:
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Rautakyy, I’m definitely limited in my memory sometimes when I get writing. Please believe me that misspelling of your name was not at all deliberate. Heck, I can forget my own cell phone number and have to double check. My total apologies if you felt offended.
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No offence taken Becky. I have made the same mistake of mispelling other people’s names in the blogosphere and I do realize (wich is what I was trying to express, when my comment went on to a wrong blog, for some reason I do not know), that my name is indeed quite hard for someone from a different language group altogether.
I am quite busy at the moment, but I do want to continue our interresting discourse and will be replying you the first moment I have some free time to do it properly, as long as our gracious host Nan can stand for it, or until we come to some sort of conclusion on our parts.
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Hello again Becky. Thanks for your great response.
Statistically the police are far more likely take drastic action and precautions against “black” people than “white” people in the USA. That is a fact. There are reasons, such as “black” people being much more likely very poor than the “white” people and therefore more prone to crime. Police action ending in shooting the suspect dead so often is a result of ridiculous gun laws (or more like lack of any), wich cause the police to have a very good reason to fear for their lives on the streets and a third rate police training that is often shorter a single year, while typically in other western countries the police training takes several years. None of this is the fault of president Trump. I agree with you whole heartedly, that taking money from the police as a response to police violence is the very poorest “solution” imaginable. Has Biden really suggested to do so? As the US police obviously are doing a bad job, they should be supported, not punished. Yet, punishing somebody for a bad job is the American way, is it not? Is it not exactly what Trump is trying to do with WHO? Is it not what is common in your school system, that when a school has problems to produce good educational results, the school funding is cut back? Has that ever lead to better educaltional results?
I find this division to “black & white” and what have you other racial assumptoins, that can be made about people, is a very prominent and definately a damaging feature of the US culture. In reality we could just as well say, that the US police is far more likelier to shoot dead a poor person, than a rich one. The “American dream” I am told is all about gaining access to the great middle-class of permanent job and a constant flow of consumer goods, healthcare (by insurance) and other such basic needs to be fulfilled. Yet, in statistics and in research of all the Western countries and even a bunch of Third world countries social mobility from poor to the middle-class is least likely in the USA. Why? The American dream has not been a realistic goal for most of your compatriots since the 1960’s. This is not Trump’s fault by any means. He is a product of that sort of society as much as people who vote for him. On the other hand I do not see him doing anything about the problem either. Has he? I am not sure if Biden could do anything to it either, because the lobbyists and businessmen, shareholders and Capitalists who run most of the politics in your country would not want their priviledges to be threatened in any way. Ideological Capitalism has become your national identity and it is damaging to the poor of your country. Now it would seem like it has finally become damaging to the middle-class as well and soon enough it will damage all of us around the globe, through the climate change and pollution.
The violence seen in riots around the USA seem like a result of very bad policy extended for decades and even centuries. If people are being treated like dirt, they will sooner or later respond to their treatment. The worse the treatment the worse the response. It is not like the rioters are rioting just because they are some sort of bad people. The Civil war did not bring the “black” people up to par with the “white” people. The WWII did not bring the “black” to the same level with the “white” while Nazi Germany should have taught us all how very arbitrary and damaging racial segregation can be. The peacefull demonstrations of the Civil Rights movement were met by violence and murder. Now even generations later, though the USA is supposed to be the land of the free, some people simply are more free than others. Sadly the division line all too often and still goes between the people deemed as “black” and people deemed as “white”. Instead of calming the situation down, Trump seems to only talk to his supporters and not concerning the worries about police violence as something he takes seriously. He certainly has not tried to act as a mediator or a uniting leader. Has he? As if the demands of the peacefull demonstrators were naught, just because some other demonstrators have lost their nerve and rioted.
Russia has not broken the terms of the nuclear contract, but they have done things that are in direct contrast to the spirit of the treaty. They positioned new missiles to Kaliningrad, but it was a response to NATO moving anti-missile systems to Poland, that was not against the contract either, but equally in violation of the spirit of the treaty. USA withdrawing from the contract has done absolutely nothing good. USA has been totally unable to respond to the Russian new development of missiles, that was their response to the US withdrawing from it. As far as I know, Mr. Trump gave as his reason to withdraw from the treaty, that as China was not a subscribing member of the treaty it did not limit their ability to further develope their capabilities. So, what has happened, is that the US has broken the treaty and gained absolutely nothing in response and not even opening new negotiations. China continues with their program as ever before and Russia has developed new generation of weapons. China did not lose or gain anything. Russia won and USA lost. To me that seems like a foreign policy of a nincompoop on part from Mr. Trump, but it may be that he knows something I do not. Do you? However, I suspect he did it either to gain some personal gratification (he seems to enjoy braking the efforts of his predecessors), or to gain favour from Mr. Putin he so much admires, or most likely to gain some favour from his own supporters to whom he could somehow play this thing as if it were a victory. I expect you might be able to open and explain how this should be taken as a good result? It may be, that I am looking at this very one sidedly because of my own prejudices about Russia as a Finn.
As for the economic achievement of Mr. Trump I would like to quote Keith from a previous comment in this very same discussion: “Trump inherits an economy in its 91 consecutive month of growth and he lets everyone know that he created it, but that is impossible. To his credit, it continued, but he did not create it.” For his business acumen, I have to say, that a man who has inherited a massive real-estate empire and still suffered several bankruptcies must be an economic nincompoop, because that is according to several experts, the form of business where it is the most difficult to lose your money – unless you are a venture capitalist with too much balls and not enough sense.
I totally agree with you, that none of these events happened in a vacuum as nothing ever within human culture. Yes, I know that Trump has been nominated for Nobel Peace Prize. Do you know who nominated him? I would not be very proud of his nomination. On the other hand, if I try to think that Trump really tries to keep up world peace – and why not, everyone, exept perhaps war industry shareholders (who do seem to have an awfull lot of influence in your society), would be expected to want that – it seems his foreign policy is, that he likes to keep the other world leaders on the edge of their seats, because the US foreign policy has become unpredictable during his reign. I guess it is possible, that he genuinely thinks that by this erratic and wild behaviour he can keep everyone in check. That the Iranians and everybody else who have interrests contrary to US capitalists interrests would think that they can not count on the US not attacking suddenly, even though the US economy would propably not be able to survive such a strain. Maybe his goal is not to appear as a rational man at all and thus to create an atmosphere of fear to keep up peace. I do not know if it is a widely held view among his supporters, that this is his strategy. Perhaps not, because the very expensive US military might seems combined with the ego and identity of many of them. Does it not? They would not like the idea, that infact, the money you have spent on your military has not provided you with an effective military, rather it has simply vanished to the bank accounts of the owners of the military industrial complex. Because there is no better way to make profit, than to sell crap and charge overprice for it. Is there? The best thing for the weapons manufacturer is (and this applies to many other countries as well) that if someone tries to question the rationale of buying crap for the military, their complaints can easily be overlooked as anti-patriotism, even if it is the exact opposite.
To me Trump seems only as a self promotory businessman and a talk show host with ony selfish goals who has capitalized on his fame in politics, but acts in accordance to his own career, rather than the interrest of his country at heart. He is the product and pinnacle of an ideologically Capitalist culture where selfishness is held as the highest virtue. His political goals seem obscure, as just about anybody can project their own fantasies and hopes (be they racist, or imperialistic, or simply to have a job) on the notion of making America great again. A class act of a con artist, but perhaps he is not the only politician who has succumbed to this level? He retains a fanatically loyal voter base, who seem to have tied their identiteis to him, wich was best demonstrated before the previous elections by him saying something along the lines, that he could do bloody murder and his supporters would not report him to the law enforcement. A statement of utter arrogance and neglect for law and any morals, but obviously a true one, as his voters, despite him openly stating this, rewarded him with their votes. I have no idea if Biden is as bad. Has he said something as extreme such as this?
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Dear rautakyy,
I used to have one Finnish colleague in electric engineering (majoring in computer systems) and another one later in the social sciences department (inclusive of anthropology, sociology, criminology and archaeology), and I had enjoyed having many conversations with them whilst appreciating their broad mindset and maturity established by their Finnish education system. Having read many of your comments here also reminded me of the traits in you that I observed in my said colleagues.
Referring to your mention of Trump’s business track record, given that he has had six bankruptcies, it may be stated (concretely, figuratively or otherwise) that his seventh bankruptcy will involve not just his businesses but the USA as a whole, and the scopes will not just pertain to the economic sphere but also the moral, sociocultural, political, civil, governmental, constitutional, judicial, ministerial and environmental domains.
Whilst Pluto has been demoted to a dwarf planet, the planet of America has already ascended to plutocracy whilst being plagued in varying degrees by post-truth politics, demagoguery, ochlocracy, oligarchy, kleptocracy and narcissistic leadership.
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I definitely agree with you that the black/white division is very bad for the country. I think, though, this is prominent more both on the far right, and the left. Most folks in the middle, Rautakyy, are content to judge people by their character, and not the color of their skin. However, it’s also true that people are certainly able to exploit racial division for their own end.
I feel like most police officers in our country are doing a good job, but, of course, there are always “bad apples in the barrel,” so to speak. It’s the same in any profession.
IMO, one of the most central issues plaguing the African-American community in the inner city is the tremendous breakdown of the family. A huge percentage of households are led by single moms, teenagers attempting to parent fatherless boys is a sure recipe for disaster, and for poverty. Also, many of these kids are trapped in poorly performing schools. which, of course, correlates to low and poor employment down the road. My thought is that giving the Black community greater access to school choice as is the case with more affluent children would be a step in the right direction. I think the solution is more complex though than just throwing more money into the mix.
Rautakky, we’re kind of all over the place with this discussion, but I want to share that for me the American dream is not about making as much money as possible, having a bigger car or house. I personally want to do as much good in the world as possible with the time that I have. But, I’m not at all drawn to socialism. Most American people love personal freedom and liberty. There’s so much more I could say, but you are just not going to have that to the same degree living in a completely socialist country. You can’t.
I realize that free markets can be abused. Crony capitalism is a problem. But, capitalism can also be a way to generate wealth and employment. Competition can serve to drive down prices while producing goods and services that people need and want. It can drive initiative and innovation.
Right now there is a plan in place to drive down the cost of prescription drugs. I feel that more competition among insurance companies can also drive down out of pocket medical costs, etc.
Also, it comes to my mind, that perhaps what works best for one country may not for another. I think if people can be happy living in a totally socialist country, that is fine, but I just don’t know of any that have done well across the board. It would not be for me, or, I think, for most people living in the US.
Rautakky, my primary concern with Mr. Biden is that I question his mental capacity. I truly think he may be in the beginning stages of dementia. I also think there are some questions concerning his son and past dealings with China, as well as an allegation of sexual assault.
But, if he is elected, I hope to God that I am wrong. I will support him if he is elected as our president and make the best of it.
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Hello again Becky. I am sorry it took me time to answer to you, but I have been really busy elswhere.
Indeed, we are in agreement, that most people do not judge people by the colour of their skin. In my experience those that do, come explicitly from the right-wing side of politics and value base. The common uniting thing about right-wing values and politics with the racist attitudes is the idea, that some people are supposedly more deserving than others and that ultimately people are of different value. That is the carrying idea of Capitalism – that somehow some people deserve more than others, by birthright or by some clever scheme. When taken to extremes, that idea is known as Fascism a subset of wich is Racism. However, many of the people who do not judge other people by the colour of their skin, yet vote for political parties and individual politicians who do so, or who at least do not do anything to stop racism and thus act as enablers of such unhealthy values and ideals such as Fascism and Racism. Can we agree on this too?
I expect most US police officers do a good job and that they have joined the force to keep up law and justice. At the same time it is a social, cultural and political problem to be dealt with, that in the US their training is helplessly inadequate and that some of them use their position as the representatives of the violence monopol to vent their fear and hatred coming from their inherited racist attitudes. It is alarming that some of them seem to think they will not come to trouble by doing so. It tells us a story of culture where the majority who only want to live in peace turn the blind eye to injustice as long as it is not directed against them. If the government does not take this problem seriously, but points the blame at people who demonstrate against it, or even against people who riot and damage property because of their frustration of the obvious injustice manifested in police violence, that government needs to be replaced by a better one at the earliest possible opportunity, by a government that takes seriously not only the riots, but their core causes. Does it not?
Single mom’s are quite capable of raising their sons and daughters as productive and good members of the society. Many of my very succesfull friends come from single parent families. If there is a brakedown of social structure and trouble with kids, who come from a single parent household, that is a sign that the society has not supported the single parents properly. It may even be a sign that the society has not supported the families properly. There is no other solution to this problem, exept social support of the parents be they married or single. We can not repair the issue by setting laws that forbid divorce. That would be simply idiotic, as we propably agree? Moral judgement of divorcees, by outsiders has the worst effect imaginable on their kids. What about the kids of widowers? They face the same problems as the kids of the divorcees and deserve the same amount of support from the society. Do they not?
Giving the choise of schools to more people may be the solution to some problems, as you suggest, but to me having grown up here in Finland, it seems like a bad and inadequate solution, that promotes competition but not equality. Our constitution demands, that all schools must be able to perform on an equal level and that it is the job of the government to provide for the schools to do so. This far it has served us quite well. We have had the highest PISA results for ages.
I wish to make it clear, that I am by no means blaming you personally about anything in particular. We are all humans and we all make bad calls and errors you and me alike. Do we not? I would rather see us on agreement on most things, even though our discussion naturally centers around things we have a different perspective on, but that is fruitfull as we can learn from each other. Yes? I have learned a great deal from you about the US society and culture. I fear, it is all too easy to fall into the pitfall of stereotyping those we know disagree with us and judge their views by very limited standards. Yet, I do think we have been able to awoid that problem together.
All Capitalism is naturally directed towards monopoly. That is why many countries that otherwise favour Capitalists have had to set laws against monopolies and cartels. The idea, that you should need Capitalists for them to provide jobs is – I am sorry to say – just ridiculous. Soviet Union had full employment. The government provided everybody with a job, no matter how insignificant, they all had jobs (and they didn’t need to pay any taxes). Unemployment was not the problem why Soviet Union fell. It was not the lack of Capitalists to provide jobs, but the lack of democracy and conservative authoritarian leadership. All capitalist countries have unemployed people. The amount of Socialism in their policies defines how much support the unemployed get and respectively how desperate the unemployed feel, if the do not have adequate help and thus how violently they react to injustices like for example police brutality. In fact, politically the Capitalist is inclined to favour a certain level of unemployment, as a workforce reserve, wich makes it harder for the individual worker or a trade union to demand better pay or better working conditions, since there are always unemployed workers willing to do the job even cheaper, than the current employees. That is, because by saving in pay and investment in proper working conditions the Capitalist can count towards their own profits – and they do. Do they not?
Competition between Capitalists rarely directs the markets towards what people need, or brings down prices of necessary goods, even though it may regulate the price of less needed consumer goods. Most likely the competition of actually needed goods is competition of who dares to charge the highest prices for what people really do need. Look at the price of insulin, that I mentioned before in this discussion. It is a product vital to those who use it, but the price is only affordable to the common labourers in countries where it is regulated by the government or where government owned medical companies provide it to people who need it. In countries where the markets decide the price, such as USA, Uganda, and several other third world developing countries, the companies are only competing who can get the most profit by providing it with the highest prices to the limited group of users who can afford the highest prices. Capitalism does direct the production of goods and markets towards things that people want, on that we are in agreement, but what people want is highly regulated and directed by the Capitalists through advertisment and marketing. We are subjects of constant brainwash to imagine we want items, that we do not need.
Insurance companies are like parasites, that leach on the fear of what might happen. The worse government support for people in various desperate situations the greater the profit of the insurance company share holder. Simple as that. Why would they compete the profits of each other down as long as people who can afford their high prices have to cling on to their “product” and nobody can expect to have any support or safety from the government? No, they will only compete on how much each of them dares to charge people for the same “item”, since their CEO’s are greatly rewarded by bigger profits for the shareholders.
I do not know what you mean by “completely Socialist country”, but I am guessing you are refferring to the past Soviet Union or something to that degree. The things that were really bad and wrong about the Soviet Union have not changed much in Russia in thirty years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Have they? They still have a conservative authoritarian government, that does not stand for any criticism let alone dissidents or an actual political opposition. Their military still holds too much political and economic power. Socialism has nothing at all to do with those problems, they are very Russian cultural issues, that they have had since the days of the Tzars.
I guess I agree with you, that what suits one nation may not be agreeable, or even functional to a nother country. The USA vision of Socialism seems to be distorted by generations of propaganda of connecting it with authoritarian dictatorships, as if there were no dictatorships in Capitalist countries. We have hard time to overcome even our worst cultural heritages and traditions, that may come from historical situations where they were usefull or even somehow ethical, but may have long since lost those properties and are followed as practices because people who have limited analytical skills are the critical mass of conservatives who fear the change, almost any change, so much that they are willing to torpedoe even changes that would be beneficial not only to their entire society, but themselves especially.
Freedom is generally a good thing, but when we talk about freedom, we should always also talk about whose freedom to do what exactly are we talking about. Otherwise we have only declared that the murderer must have his freedom to murder or there is no freedom. Look at the US concept of “right to bear arms”. There may be historical reasons as to why you have that notion, but what good has it served in a long time? A lot of misery has followed from it. Our freedom is much like our rights, it should only extend as far as to where the freedom and rights of a nother person begin. If we are set in an unegalitarian, unequal position, then one person has paid with the loss of their freedom the price of a nother person having priviledges over them. Capitalism is all about priviledges, that aquiring capital provides for the Capitalist. For one person over a nother person.
Mr. Biden has a beginning dementia? Do you not have doctors in the USA? Can it be possible, that the entire Democratic party does not have a healthy individual to put forward as a candidate to compete over the precidency? How can that be? There are some 300 million of you out there. We are only 5 million and only once in our history has a person with a beginning dementia run for precidency and he was a beloved long time president, that was highly respected over the political spectrum. Usually all of our presidential candidates (and we have many in every election, since we have a multi-party system) are completely healthy. How the actions of the son of Mr. Trump or Mr. Biden are in any way relevant to their parents electability is a question I do not understand. Are we not talking about actions these sons may or may not have taken as adults? Do you concern yourself responsible for what your children might do when they have grown into adulthood? Does adulthood not mean the same thing in your country, as it does in mine, that an adult is responsible for their own actions? It is impossible in my country to set any parent for trial for what their adult offspring have done as adults.
As for the mental capabilities of Mr. Trump, it is a subject that has disturbed me ever since I became aware of his existance when he announced his candidacy for precidency of the USA, because even though I do not speak English as my native tongue, it seems to me very much, that if he had gone to an English school he would have been voted as “the boy least likely to be able to finnish a sentence”. His output does not seem like that of an educated man, even though he has been to all the most expensive schools that his elite backround has made possible for him. It is more like he is struggling to form any coherent sentences. Does it not appear to you like this? Many people have made comments about it, and I made my observation of him indipendendly of others who have said the same. Of course, if he has some defect or other, that explains his obvious difficulties, it is most admirable, that he has overtaken such challenges and reached the highly respected position he is in.
It seems you are in a bit of a pickle. Both of your leading candidates have been accused of molesting women, that kind of goes to show that they do not hold much respect for women in general. I find it sad, that out of such a large nation, there seems to be a serious shortage of male candidates who would not have sexual harrasment scandals in their history. There have not been any Finnish presidential candidates who would have been accused of any and any Finnish party, that had such a man as their candidate, would likely retract said person immidiately and set a nother capable candidate in their place, if any such allegation would have been shown to be true. Yet, there have not even been any allegations. Does the fact, that you do have such men as leading candidates mean, that sexual harrasment is so common in your culture, that practically all men have engaged in such, so much so, that it is nearly impossible to find any, who would otherwise be good enough chaps to be presidents? One would expect, that people who actually do have any history of that sort of behaviour would be the first to be ruled out of any list of candidates by any party, since half of the voting population consists of women and I expect most men even in your country would find any sexual harrasment of women morally reprehensible. Could it be time, that your major parties should choose women candidates to awoid such a basic problem?
I know this is long and that there is much to chew here, but if Nan our gracious host, permits I would like to continue this discussion with you as you have a way of representing your views in such civil tones.
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Yes indeed, rautakyy! A very looooong comment!!!! You have many good things to say, but please … don’t overdo, OK?
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My appologies to you Nan and Becky as well. I did get a bit carried away, did I not? I try to limit my enthusiasm in the future. Damn, I knew I went overboard with it, but did it anyway. What is wrong with me?
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Hi, Rautakky, good to hear back from you. I think it would be too long to address every concern.. I’ll do my best.
But, might I ask you this. My understanding is that Finland does have a strong capitalist economy, and your people enjoy great prosperity and peace. Would you want to change this?
I do understand that there is a greater social security net than we have in the US. But, to my mind, this isn’t the same as maintaining a socialist economy. Maybe we are getting in the weeds with these definitions.
Finland is a smaller more homogenous country than the US. I know in Canada, a larger country close to us, there have been some real problems with universal, govt. run healthcare which among other things has helped to impact my thinking.
Here’s a link to a fairly recent article in the HuffPost.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_n_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff
Most people in the US do feel strongly concerning the right to bear arms. I’m not opposed to common sense regulations, and a modicum of gun control. There is no reason for folks running around armed with machine guns.
I’m not sure concerning the situation in Finland, but I can assure you that in the US, criminals can always lay their hands on guns through the Black Market. And, there are times when guns in the hands of law abiding citizens have saved lives, in the case of home invasions, for example.
But, personally, Rautakky, I don’t own a gun. I’m uncomfortable around them. I could see something like shooting myself in the foot, and what if one of my grandkids managed to get ahold of it???
My son who lives in Alaska wanted to get a gun as a protection against the grizzlies when hiking. I thought , “Oh no,” and persuaded him to go in the direction of bear spray, instead. 🙂
Why are we in this situation of a narrow choice between President Trump and Mr. Biden? I have often asked myself the same question, Rautakky. Neither would have been my first choice. I simply don’t know.
As far as I know, Mr. Biden has not been willing to take a mental capacity test. I feel that he should, and that this should be a requirement for all presidential candidates.
There is concern that Mr. Biden was aware of his son’s business dealings, and was complicit . This is currently being more deeply investigated.
I agree that Mr. Trump does not have a great facility with language, and public speaking compared to many others. He does not come across as being as “presidential” as I would like.
For one thing, I don’t agree with this business of trading insults with people no matter what. With God’s help, I want to never do this, and I don’t feel our political leaders should either. But, they all do, to one degree or another.
As far as I’m concerned, people should feel free to disagree about issues, and even attack ideas. We should not attack the person, or automatically assume malevolent motives because they disagree with us.
I’ve enjoyed talking with you too, Rautakky. I now want to visit Finland. 🙂
Take care, and every blessing. I’ll be off the internet for awhile, but I’m sure we’ll talk again.
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Hello again, Becky.
Finnish nation is balancing between Capitalism and Socialism just as every democratic nation in the world. Even USA, that has not so far, privatized it’s police force, nor it’s military, even though the Capitalist agenda seems to be, that the private sector does everything more efficiently. That is pure nonsense, as we know from comparrison between private and public Finnish healthcare and many other examples.
Prosperity and peace are not the results of Capitalism in Finland or anywhere else, because war is an exellent opportunity to make money and Capitalism is all about making money for the few on the expense of many. Infact, one could well argue, that this is the main reason for most wars. Capitalism is a problem of economy and Socialism is merely the suggested remedy.
150 years ago, the average Finn was relatively much more wealthier than the average Russian. Many Finns owned their own small farms, while most Russians were actual slaves of their overlords. By the fall of the Soviet Union, that economical gap between the average Finn and the average Russian was almost gone. Obviously the Soviets did not need a Capitalist to provide for that growth or prosperity. Now thirty years after, the gap is still almost the same as it was then and Russia is run by a Capitalist mob. The main difference is, that today the average Russian has far more choises of consumer goods, that “de facto” are destroying the environment for the entire world. Regardless wether they are consumed in the USA, Finland, or Russia. We – you and I together – need to change this development before it is too late.
Finland is much more smaller, but not terribly much more homogenous, than the USA. We are a nation consisting of many ethnic, religious and cultural minorities.
Thanks for the link to the article. I will look it up when I have better time.
Here in Finland we have strict gun permission laws, yet we have more guns per capita, than the USA. We have comparatively a lot less gun related deaths and crime. We have less poverty, that creates crime. Our prisons are not places of punishment run by private companies trying to make a profit out of the human tragedy, but government run rehabilitation facilities. Our criminals are far less likely to renew their criminal careers after serving in our prisons, than in yours, even though they spend a lot shorter sentences and thus are far less expensive to the society.
Where do you think the guns in the black market come from? Every gun in the black market was once a legal gun made in a legal factory and sold according to laws. How easily do perfectly legal guns end up in the black market and what sort of legal guns are awailable for the black market to aquire for their criminal customers? Are the laws about selling guns and the laws about how one should store their guns too feeble? A house with many guns is not safe from criminals. It is a target for the criminals to rob the guns to create new guns for the black markets.
Again, I feel we agree on many, if not most things, but fail to see many of them from the same perspective.
Have a good one!
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Trump is aided by that Kentucky blockhead Mitch McConnell. While ever he remains in the Senate he thinks He is the president. America if you want Trump gone vote him gone, and vote anyone like McConnell gone too.
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Hello seasiders! Nice to have you aboard.
I agree … McConnell MUST be removed. Not only is he past his prime, but he displays all the crotchety traits of an old man!
I look forward to future comments from you. 🙂
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It is absolutely disgusting, the hate that he has stirred up, and spewed all over our country. He made these people feel like they have power. America needs to (1) step up and voting him out (2) take to the streets in massive numbers to show that we will NOT accept a fascist America. Vote blue 💙💙
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