Is the above a true and infallible statement?
Hardly. As one individual put it …
The statement has no value in [and] of itself and relies on a premise that has not been verified.
And therein lies the marked difference between the believer and the non-believer.
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(Click here for the discussion leading up to this comment.)
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Thank you for linking that up Nan. There are some very worthy statements in the thread I have continued to reread. If one can read through this and not be pause to think, question, and consider, I don’t know if anything will. Thanks again.
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No problem. I too think there’s some good stuff in that post. 🙂
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You would have to define what God you’re talking about first, the what kind of ‘evidence’ would be accepted. Otherwise you’re going to have a fuzzy and meaningless discussion.
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You have a point. But I think most visitors to my blog are aware of the “god” I’m referencing. If they aren’t, then by all means, the floor is open.
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The problem with ‘leaving the floor open’ is that Christians like Mel, Loy, Dylan, et. al. Infinitum… will use that vagueness to fuzzy up and misdirect much the same as Paul supposedly did in acts 17. “… even so you’ve built one to the Unknown God”… just in case you missed one… “This one I’m here to tell you about”. They use the generality of philosophical and linguistical bs to sneak in their God of the Bible that they never have to define, and never have to defend. “… oh, you mistake us for literalists/fundamentalists. We’re not THOSE kind of Christians. We’re enlightened” but they still end up being biblical literalist, just not honest enough to openly admit it. They know they can’t full defend the indefensible, so they side step accountability but fuzzing out the lines and shifting the goal posts when the situation dictates. Anything to “win” the point.
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And so your suggestion for the blog title would be … ??
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“Your God Exists in 20 Questions or less.”
Any takers?
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Or maybe… “Playing Spin the Draydel”
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Ha-Ha to both. But appreciate your input. 😀
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It’s not possible to pre-emptively refute in advance every dishonest word-game and squid-ink tactic that theists might come up with — not in a whole post and certainly not in just a title. We know which God they mean as well as they do — the one who sent Jesus, appears in the Bible, hates gays, and will send us to Hell if we don’t believe the right things. When Western Christians insist that God exists, they aren’t talking about Thor.
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Thanks Infidel … that was pretty much my thinking at the onset.
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Which god?
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See my (first) response to KIA.
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I’m open to them all. Jehovah/Dieu/Gott/God/Allâh doesn’t exist. Vishnu doesn’t exist. Zeus doesn’t exist. Odin doesn’t exist. Moloch doesn’t exist. Osiris doesn’t exist. Amaterasu Ômikami doesn’t exist. Bring ’em on, I’ll deny ’em all.
When you get right down to it, there are various ways in which a universe created and controlled by a self-aware superbeing with an agenda would look and function differently than a universe which was exclusively the product of impersonal (but non-random) natural forces. All the observational data we have fit the latter scenario, not the former. The only god whose existence is plausible is one who, for some reason, set up the universe to be exactly the way it would be if there were no god. And quantum physics has provided a scientifically-tenable answer to the question of the origin of the universe — the “why is there something rather than nothing” problem. There’s no evidence supporting the proposition that “God exists”.
Granted, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, but in some cases it pretty much is. If you walk into a normal-sized room and don’t see an elephant, perhaps on some abstract level you could argue that that doesn’t prove there is no elephant in the room, but it makes it pretty unlikely that there is one.
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Clearly a god exists in the mind of the individual who believes. The “Word” is literally a thought. Therefore, what I suppose to be real, is as real as I require to support my supposition.
Wait and minute, that’s where I retreat to relax. A little make believe, you know, pulp fiction. Wow, wrap it up and stuff it in B movie plot and you have a cult favorite in the offing.
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Well, I know that Allah exists, and I can prove it.
1.) The Koran exists.
2.) In the Koran it states Allah is real; He’s the only God and that Mohammad is his prophet.
3.) In the Koran it also states, “This book is not to be doubted.”
4.) Therefor, Allah/God exists.
Mic drop! Yer OUTTA here, you atheist, non-believing dogs,you!
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Exactly, full circle, if you will.
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Exactly! Flawless logic, eh.
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I am, therefore I am
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Who is Nan? I just finished a book by Nan Yielding, titled Things I Didn’t Learn In Sunday School. Try it if you get a chance. 😀
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Nan is me! 😀
Hey, Archon — Thank you for stopping by and leaving a plug for my book. Hope you’ll check back again … and often.
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‘Nan’ is not common as a name. Considering what I was reading, and where, I suppose the coincidence was not gigantic- but on the day I finished your book??!
Great anti-Christian claim research volume. I added about 500 words to a Word file on Biblical contradictions, and learned a new explanation for ‘taking’ the Lord’s name in vain. 😀 I had to settle for an outdated Kobo e-book version. My Kindle was jealous.
I’ll try to stop by occasionally. Your thoughts and information are worth it.
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I doubt that God as imagined by atheists exists.
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Pretty good reasoning there, Loy. You should try using it more often.
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Well, atheists can all conjure up all sorts of Gods. Atheists can imagine the same all powerful God that believers do, but atheists know He exists only when they want to waste some time thinking about Him! GROG
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As anything other than a mental construct gods do not exist, but for the delusional the God between their ears is real. GROG
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Did that truth come to in as a vision in a dream?
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Why do you want to know? GROG
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Just curious.
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Hi Old Guy. A lawyer no less. Before I can answer your question I need to know what the difference is between a vision and a dream. Like, is one when praying by the beside, and the other when asleep in the bed? I visited your site, so I think you will understand my attempt at humor. Speaking of humor, I like Lewis Black’s routine about the Bible (YouTube).
Answer to your question; my revelation came from getting old. GROG
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A lawyer no more. Retired and inactive.
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Does your name mean you drink a lot of grog?
Just curious.
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Easy one: It’s an acronym.
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Gremlins run on gas a lot
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Hey there!? You got the last two. Wanna take another stab?
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I hate guessing games.
GROGalot = get rid of god a lot
Still friends?
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Thanks. I still like saying it means drinking grog a lot.
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Just bought you book on kindle. Is that your picture on the cover on the Amazon web site?
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Hi Old Guy!! So glad you decided to join us.
No … that is NOT my picture! 😄 I found it on one of the graphic sites (Dreamstime, I think) and thought it fit the title and contents. I will be interested in hearing your thoughts when you finish it … and of course, a review on Amazon would be nice. 👍
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I will let you know. Good picture choice for the cover.
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Speaking of a review … I just checked and saw that I’d received my second “one-star”. Horrors!
The writer defends the bible (surprise! surprise!) and of course disputes my POV. But this comment — You will find pithy statements against the bible’s validity but no solid source is the one that stood out the most Especially since I pointed out in the Amazon description that “there are nearly 200 reference notes, numerous scripture quotes, and a substantial bibliography.” No solid source indeed!
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I suppose the reviewer did not think any of them were solid. Must have taken a while to check all of them out.
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Must have taken a while to check all of them out. … Yup! 😁
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Sources that don’t say what they want to hear can’t be “solid”.
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Good point.
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Finished your book. I liked it. It was well researched and well written. I liked your putting the Bible books in chronological order. I had never seen that before. I learned some history and contex Zi had not seen before. I did not see anything to criticize or disagree with. If something comes to mind later I will let you know. Also liked the personal honesty in your writing. That is more than I would be able to do.
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Thank you much! Especially your comment about it being “well researched.” 😉
Happy that you learned things. I know I did in writing it. Definitely solidified my decision to depart from Christianity.
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Nan, You specify “departing from Christianity.” Q.: Is it to be understood then, that you also do not harbor positive feelings for Allah? GROG
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Actually, we’ve never met. 😆 But from what I’ve heard, his credentials are also lacking.
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After thinking about it some there are two points I would like to know more about.
The first is about Paul. What happened to him on the road to Damascus and what lead him to start a new religion. You discussed both in your book. Theo se points could be the subject of another book.
The second is about Paul Tillich and his theory about why people embrace religion. That could be another book.
More things to think about.
I tried to give you a review but my kindle kept telling me there was a problem and to try again later. I will keep trying.
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I think often about Paul. I firmly believe Christianity is a misnomer and should be Paulinity. As to another book (or two) …. probably won’t happen. Too old, too tired. *sigh*
Whatever and whenever you can do on Amazon will be much appreciated.
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I think Ricky Gervais said something to the effect of, ‘If you want to deny something don’t choose the Holocaust or Evolution. You’ll just look silly. Way too much evidence. Choose a God or Homeopathy’.
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I think that I also heard him saying to a devout Christian (I forget who it was) “You and I are not that different, really. You’ve already rejected about ten thousand God’s. I’ve just rejected one more.”
My quotes may be a little inaccurate…. but I think I have the meaning.
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I seem to remember Michael Shermer saying that. Also, Hitchen’s said something like, as we loose gods, we are getting closer to the correct number each time. GROG
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nan, very good. “Actually, we’ve never met. 😆 But from what I’ve heard, his credentials are also lacking.” Neither have I met any prophet, and until a few short years ago I had never confronted the delusion of faith. It just goes to show; one is never too old, for almost anything. These days it is absolutely amazing what we are seeing! The miracle is not the eternal, the miracle is now. There is but one life, not two. Cheers, oh, and GROG.
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I think the real difference is that those who reject religion never believed in it in the same way, or understood it to mean the same thing, to begin with. Usually, those who have rejected religion do so from a purely logical, rules based perspective: believing in God means believing this or that text, following this or that rule, expecting this or that reward. In short, a cold bargaining system. This is not where religion fits in a life. Religion is not about getting something. It is about existing in a loving harmony with the universe. (I will note here that religion is not the only way to achieve such a state, but it holds a different flavor.)
Another common pattern is to place religion in opposition to science, this based on the expectation that both are attempting to fulfill the same need. Science seeks to explain the physical world by defining its laws. Religion deals with the part not grounded in atoms: the soul, the spirit. If one does not believe in anything beyond the physical world, then one has no framework through which to understand religion, and of course it will sound ridiculous. The physical, literal part of religion was never the point, and so examination of such as the root and whole of belief reveals no reason for such belief.
The problem is the human mind struggles to grasp, and to effectively relay, complex abstract thoughts. Metaphors are necessary, and so there arises a divide: those who accept or reject on the literal level, and those who do not focus on the literal but something else communicated with it. Believers are born from the second category.
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Hello RR. Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. While I may not agree with some of the things you presented, I do appreciate each person’s perspective. IMO, each of us believes as we do because of life experiences. And possibly, as you indicated, because the human mind “struggles to grasp” what is behind our very existence — who we are and why we are here — and not all of us comes up with the same answers. 🙂
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