Right before things got crazy related to our recent move, I read a blog post that intrigued me. It was called “How to Prove Christianity False in Five Minutes“ and was written by “Gary.” He started his post thusly:
I believe that traditional Christianity can be proven false in five minutes by knocking out the three pillars of the Christian Faith (belief system):
- The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus
- The Accuracy of Old Testament Prophecy
- The Witness of the Holy Spirit
He then clearly listed his perspective on each point. But it wasn’t so much his clear and concise explanations that got my attention, it was more Gary’s response to “Andrew,” who had left the following comment (condensed):
You are viewing death purely from a human standing. Jesus is God the Creator and only took the role of a human being in order to pay the price for sin. This He did out of pure love, a love that for most of us is sadly illusive.
True Christians live to love and serve others following the actions of Jesus when He became a man. Sadly there are millions who muddy the water with false faith and erroneous lifestyles under the banner of Christianity.
If am wrong and you are right nothing changes, but if I am right then the afterlife is going to be a lamentable experience.
And how sad that you all seem to think that death (as the world knows it) is all there is… What a waste…
In his reply, Gary asks Andrew if he’s studied other “exclusivist” beliefs so he can be 100% certain he’s made the right choice (I think most of us know the answer), and further points out that for most Christians, it’s really a matter of HOPE they have put their faith in the “correct” god. He goes on to say that ALL religions are simply human invention based on ancient superstitions.
He then challenges Andrew (or any other believer) that if they want to prove him wrong, they will need to do more than frighten him with threats of eternal damnation.
*************
Of course I agree with Gary, but I was particularly struck by this part of Andrew’s comment: True Christians live to love and serve others following the actions of Jesus.
Ahhh yes. “True Christians live to love” while at the same time threatening non-believers with images of fire and brimstone IF they don’t turn their lives over to Jesus. Perhaps if someone has leanings towards “becoming a Christian,” these dire warnings might have some influence, but for those who have clearly and repeatedly expressed their non-belief in not only Christianity, but every other “god-based religion,” such admonitions become extremely tiresome.
However, in Christendom, it’s all a matter of “hedging your bets.” They would rather believe in the stories presented in a VERY OLD book than to make a “wrong” choice by simply enjoying the unconditional life that was given to them at birth.
Nan's Notebook 
Turn or burn. So.much.love.
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Sums it up perfectly. 🙂
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I’ve heard that tired old argument that if a Christian lives for Jesus at the end of their life they’ve lost nothing, but if I die and realize God is real then I’ve lost eternity, and I’m sick of it. First of all perhaps they’ve lost nothing but there a many Christians who deny themselves, live in horrible circumstances, and even lose this life in pursuit of eternity. If they die and realize…wait…no, that’s all there is. They’re just dead.
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I just look back on all the time I wasted in prayer, Bible study, attending church and on church committees, let alone the financial losses from my church giving.
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Oh dear, straight to Pascal. Will apologists never learn not bother with that?
And then there was this: “And how sad that you all seem to think that death (as the world knows it) is all there is… What a waste…”
No, it’s sad that Andrew has been so indoctrinated that he doesn’t realize that this life is all there is, and he’s spending his time chasing after some pipe dream instead of living his life to the full… What a waste…
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Hi Nan!
Frequently when I am discussing the supernatural claims of Christianity with Christians, and express my view that the supernatural does not exist, Christians responds with this statement: “What a horribly sad worldview. Death is the end; the end of existence.”
My response is: What is going on here? Are we having a competition for who can create the nicest fairy tale ending? …and they all lived happily ever after???
If the finality of death is the TRUTH, it is irrelevant whether it is pretty or horrific. It is what it is.
If you choose to live your life in Fantasyland, go ahead. I prefer reality.
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Well said Gary!
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I think of one of the verses from Amazing Grace:
How long I wonder would it take for even the most earnest to get sick of singing praises?
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I doubt those who “truly LOVE the Lord” ever give thought to how many years “ten thousand” actually is. All they know is they’ll be “in heaven” … and all those “bad people” who rejected their god will be off burning somewhere.
Sick.
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I imagine Andrew will be having sleepless nights wondering what things will be like after he dies once he realizes he should be worshiping Hanuman.
Oh well …. as they say, Monkey see … Monkey do.
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Or better yet … monkey do-do. 😉
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🙄 Oh for
God’sLife’s sake! WTH? LOLGetting OUT OF one’s tiny bubble, tiny home or community, or tiny state and native country, and very soon(?)… OFF THIS PLANET, etc, etc, will greatly educate someone fast! It will undoubtedly CHANGE their entire perspective and self-image they’ve ever had of this life, world, people, and the Cosmos!!! As one extremely wise person said not long ago…
And I’ll just go ahead and throw in there with Mr. Twain’s profound suggestion: “And see what the OTHER 71% of the world population believes, lives, knows, experiences, teaches, and WHY!” I’d love to know how many different cultures Andrew has experienced and lived among besides his own tiny bubble! Que the apropos music for Andrew and fanatical Christians please… 😛
Live Well — Love Much — Laugh Often — Learn Always… people! 😈😎
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I read the post a while back …. and I see Branyon has just popped over and commented.
In all honesty, I really don’t see how one could prove the tale of Yeshua’s resurrection is false.
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I have a hunch he went to Gary’s blog from here as I don’t recall him commenting there before (I could be wrong). Anyway, I agree. Proving the resurrection is impossible. (I would say it’s all a matter of “faith” but I don’t want to tempt Branyon after reading the discussion on your blog. 😉 )
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LOL… wise decision Nan! Branyon is now resorting to flippant playground agitating, his only remaining tactic now to answering seriously and with intelligent, verifiable, INDEPENDENT corroborations for his “faith” system and most everything else that’s spewing out of his keyboard. LOL 😉
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Yes, of course he went to Gary’s via your spot.
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True Christians live to love and serve others following the actions of Jesus.
As a gay child who knew his sexuality, as a gay youth who listened to the horrors of being gay from all sides, as a gay adult who lost jobs, promotion, and suffered assaults. As a gay man with a long term lover in a long term relationship I watched other get benefits for hours / days / months of marriage I couldn’t get with our years together. As a gay human being I have felt and seen the christian love. I have the scars for that love. I don’t want that love ever again. Give me human love for another human, and leave “the god who seems to love his own kind only” out of it. Thank you. Hugs
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Jesus is God the Creator and only took the role of a human being in order to pay the price for sin.
Errum, Andrew, if that was the “mission,” why didn’t they just let baby Jesus be killed by Herod? Mission Accomplished.
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Wow John, I never thought of that. So many times simple things get pointed out I missed in all the stories. Thanks. Hugs
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BAAM! Very nice intelligent correction John. 🙂
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But he had to suuuufffffffffeeerrrrrr…. 🙄
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Nan: —make a “wrong” choice by simply enjoying the unconditional life that was given to them at birth—
Just a few hours ago, I read this commercial ad in the tday’s newspaper:
“There are three ways to enjoy life: Today. Here. And now”.
I cannot (yet) afford a Porsche, but I don’t think it would be a wrong choice, and their offer amused me.
Cheers
.-
.
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Would Andrew have the same loyalty, dedication and love towards his god if his god didn’t promise an afterlife? I doubt it. That they need to use fear and shame to get people to join shows just how distorted their view of love is.
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It would be interesting to know the statistics on how many people became Christians simply because a believer “loved” them into the faith.
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My cousin is a Christian missionary. She visits orphans in Cambodia during the summer every year, and has for years. She’s shared her stories — experiences with me. Not long ago while showing pictures of the children in orphanages, she told me that she tells these children that they have a father in heaven who loves them very much. She said it gives them hope, makes them feel loved and wanted.
I think a lot of people who are susceptible to religious indoctrination are in a very vulnerable state — have felt significant rejection, abandonment and abuse (most likely from a parental figure), or tend to have significant death anxiety. My cousin is a good person, and I sincerely think she means well in what she’s doing. I should note that she was also rejected and abused by her mother when she was a child (and an adult), and sexually molested by her father multiple times and has been in therapy for years.
She is an orphan in a sense, and therefore relates to these children. She needs to believe there is a parental figure who loves her. It’s unfortunate, however, that she is perfectly OK with this parental figure sending people to a place of torment if they don’t belief and worship this god. She’s so blinded by her need to feel loved and wanted that she doesn’t see the connection with regard to choosing to worship a god who is abusive and wouldn’t think twice about tossing her into the lake of fire if she rejects him. Her perception of what love is is, especially unconditional love, distorted because of her childhood.
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I am sorry to hear what your cousin went through. I wonder do you feel it is more humane to let her have her delusion that makes her feel better, or to gently try to bring her away from a myth that is preying on her emotions? Either way my heart goes out to her. However even given that she needs her comfort from the myth, spreading to children that have such great emotional needs and lack necessary basics to me harms them needlessly. Hugs
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Scottie, you always warm my heart with your compassion. ❤
As for your questions, I do think she needs her myth, but it comes at a cost, and not necessarily to her. Last year when I had major surgery, and had initially been misdiagnosed with cancer, she and my other cousin (her sister) came to visit me. They were so kind, and I was very appreciative that they went so far out of their way to visit me (travel expense and many hours of travel time), and take me to followup appointments (which was in another state).
My other cousin is also very religious. We were in the car traveling to my doctor's followup appointment, and they started telling me about how supportive they were about the decision in N.C regarding discrimination against the LGBT communities. Well, I let them know that this was not very loving-like, and there was complete silence for a while. Then, because I was on pain meds, my inhibitions were lowered and I started informing them about how inhumane their god was, citing scripture to back it up.
Silence. Then heavy breathing.
I then told them that in good conscience could not worship such a god. They were shocked. My missionary cousin didn't know that I could see her in the back seat from the rear-view mirror. She had a look of utter disgust on her face. A very mean look. When we got back from the appointment, my other cousin gave me a book to "educate" me on the real "truth" about god.
I haven't heard from them since. So much for unconditional love, eh?
I agree with you that, in the long run, it's not good for those children to be indoctrinated. Why can't missionaries just provide for their physical and emotional needs without hitting them over the head with a bible?
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Shit, V – I’m very sorry to hear that they treated you that way.
I mean, it’s not a mystery. I get why they’d take offense. It doesn’t make them right.
Have you tried engaging on the book she gave you? Tit for tat, and all… IDK if that interests you. Just a thought.
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While your cousin’s situation is sad, it is, unfortunately, not uncommon. Of course the circumstances are different, but I would guess the statistics are high on the number of people who turn to god primarily because they lack (or lacked) love in their life. Christians CAN paint a lovely picture when they want to. However, as we’ve seen too many times, threats and scare tactics are much more common.
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Victoria, your comment: Why can’t missionaries just provide for their physical and emotional needs without hitting them over the head with a bible? reminded me of the many times I’ve read where churches have sent BIBLES to devastated areas … instead of food, water, clothing, etc.
Apparently they’ve never read (or at least didn’t take to heart) the parts in those BIBLES where it’s says to take care of those less fortunate. For example, in James: If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Per the words of one Christian blogger: “As the Church we are called to love one another and one way that we do that is by helping others.”
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I agree with all of the above that NeuroNote’s cousin’s situation is lamentable, BUT it’s even more of a shame that Christianity exploited her pain and suffering in such an insidious manner. And now as an adult, she can “go forth” but she can’t look inward. It’s a painful story.
I have often though the Bible verse: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father.” is quite possibly the single most evil thing ever written and consequently believed. It has served as a banner for colonialism and genocide…among other things. I’ll stop here, my blood pressure’s going up.
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