The “Reality” of Satan

This is a continuation of this posting. Much of the content is taken from the chapter in my book (Things I Never Learned in Sunday School) entitled, “The Big Bad Guy.”

You have probably heard the phrase, “The devil made me do it!” Often used by someone who has been caught in an awkward situation, it helps to relieve the tension of the moment, nearly always brings a laugh, and is a great way to redirect blame.

However, not everyone takes the concept of the devil so lightheartedly. Many followers of the Bible believe he is the Big Bad Guy, i.e., Satan – a very real entity whose primary goal is to disrupt people’s lives and cause them to sin against God. They are convinced he is the leader of a group of demons (angels that rebelled against God), and will one day face God in a horrific end time battle referred to as Armageddon.

Many, if not most, Christians are unaware that “Satan,” the embodiment of evil, does not exist. Now before you think I’m coming from somewhere out in left field, let me assure you this conclusion came only after many hours of extensive research. It required examining what I had always been told with a critical eye and applying what some might call “common sense.” It was a very difficult task. Probably the hardest part was overcoming the idea that it was actually “Satan” manipulating my mind and making me believe he wasn’t real. Nonetheless, I kept moving forward until I was able to rip out the deeply-rooted beliefs and see the truth.

Among today’s Christians, the Big Bad Guy is known by many names. Besides Satan or Devil, he is also known as the Evil One, Prince of Darkness, Lucifer, Father of Lies, Destroyer, God of this World, Great Deceiver, Prince of Demons, Man of Sin, the Enemy, Liar, Tempter, Master of Deceit, Lord of Death, just to name a few. Less familiar names are Azazel, Semihazah, Mastema, Beliar, Sammael, and Beelzebub.

With such an array of impressive titles, it is apparent that “Satan” holds an important place in Christianity. But does he deserve it? Let’s look closer.

The Old Testament

Some believe “Satan” is the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, the Fallen Angel mentioned in Isaiah, and the Beast/Dragon talked about in the Book of Revelation. Others believe certain kings mentioned in the Old Testament are representations of the Big Bad Guy; e.g., King of Tyre and King of Babylon.

Many are unaware that in the ancient Hebrew language, there is no “Satan” (proper name). There is, however, “the satan,” which is a literal translation of the Hebrew word, ha-satan, which means “adversary” or “accuser.” When Jewish scholars produced the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Torah, they translated ha-satan to diabolos (which is where we get the English title of “devil”). In fact, scholars who study ancient languages have found zero verses in the Old Testament where ha-satan is referring to “Satan,” the familiar fellow so many know today as the ruler of a fiery hell.

But, you ask, what about the Book of Job? The bible clearly states that “Satan” was the guy behind Job’s problems. And what about Lucifer, the fallen angel that Isaiah writes about? Or the serpent in the Garden of Eden? And isn’t Ezekiel describing a renegade angel?

In my book, I go into considerable detail to explain why it was not “Satan” lurking in the shadows of these Old Testament stories. I then go on to explain how ha-satan became “Satan” (the adversary/accuser) in the New Testament — and how he gained such a starring role.

New Testament Satan

The transformation of “Satan” from bit player to superstar came about during the so-called “silent years” – the approximate 300-400 year gap between the end of the Hebrew sacred writings and the appearance of Jesus (often called the “Second Temple” period). This is when the Jewish people went through the tumultuous times of the Babylonian captivity, the Persian and Greek takeovers, the unholy desecration of the Jewish temple by the Greek ruler Antiochus Epiphanes, and the oppression of Roman rule.

The people struggled with their faith through these years. They tried to hang on to the promises God had made to them, but it was becoming more and more difficult as foreign nations deprived them of their heritage and independence. The teachings of the Persian Zoroastrians – that an evil spirit was behind their troubles – became more and more attractive. An awareness and sensitivity to the supernatural began to develop and grow. Add to that the Greek philosophy that a group of divine beings (daemons) were the cause of evil in the world and we begin to get a few glimpses on how “Satan” began his ascent to stardom.

However, it was the apocalyptic (revelatory, prophetic) authors (discussed in Chapter Two of my book) that had the greatest influence on the changing status of “Satan.” Reportedly, these individuals received visions and messages from angelic sources about the ultimate destiny of humankind.

The writings were a blend of reality and fantasy. Nearly all of them contained predictions of end-time events, including cosmic battles between good and evil, a resurrection of the dead, a day of judgment, the meting out of rewards and punishment, the creation of a new world, and of course, the arrival of a messianic hero who would defeat the enemies of Israel.

What was most significant about these works is the way the authors began to develop a cosmic entity (based on myths from surrounding cultures as well as their own creativity) that could be blamed for all the bad things that were happening. Or as Wray and Mobley (T.J. Wray and Gregory Mobley, The Birth of Satan: Tracing the Devil’s Biblical Roots) put it, they began revealing a “cosmic conspiracy” led by a “supernatural criminal mastermind” who controlled a vast network of demonic forces.

In addition, two widely circulated books also seemed to have helped “Satan” rise to stardom: the Book of Enoch (also called I Enoch) and the Book of Jubilees. Although neither book was included in the canonized New Testament, both were instrumental in the development of the idea of “Satan” as the Principle Power of Evil.

With help from his enthusiastic promoters, “Satan” had now moved from bit player to full-fledged star. The entire community of New Testament writers couldn’t stop talking about him (according to one source, the “Devil” and/or demons are mentioned no less than 568 times). Interestingly, there is no discussion of his origin; he simply “appears.” Of course, we now know there was no need because the Jewish people had become well acquainted with Mr. Bad Guy through the apocalyptic writers.
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There is MUCH more to this chapter, but here is what I wrote as my final thoughts on the subject:

After poring through scores of books, websites, and the Bible itself, I have concluded the “Devil” is nothing more than a figment of imagination. Early Jewish writers created him to help people understand the evil that was happening all around them during the post-exilic period. Since they could not, in good conscience, place the blame for their problems on Yahweh, these creative individuals devised a supernatural entity to be the fall guy. No longer was ha-satan simply God’s prosecutor, intelligence agent, or helper. He had become “Satan,” the Enemy of God’s people.
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I urge and encourage anyone who believes an actual “Satan” exists to read my book. There is much more information (with references) within its pages than what I’ve presented here.

To credit a supernatural entity as being the source of all evil is to accept a myth – a traditional story that explains the worldview of people who lived long ago in a world much different than ours.

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165 thoughts on “The “Reality” of Satan

  1. Great stuff. I make a point in The Owner of All Infernal Names that although the benevolent Creator figure imagined in most cultures/religions varies wildly, there is a remarkable uniformity and universality in the disrupter spirit who is to be found in every religion.

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    • In ancient Egypt, it was Osirus and his evil twin brother, Set. “Ten,” in ancient Egyptian, meant “Lord” (as in Arkenaten) – the “ten” always follows the name, so “Lord Set” would have been “Seten.”

      Liked by 1 person

  2. In the catholic church (my former cult) satan held an extremely powerful place, and many times more emphasis is placed in his shenanigans than on god. It was taught that anyone outside the church was was possessed by satan’s demons (atheists especially), and any information that came from without was also tampered with by the devil. This is a terrible and powerful indoctrination to dismantle if you’ve been brainwashed from birth into believing it. In my opinion this is what makes the catholic church a cult; anyone and anything on the outside is evil, which leaves people who are questioning with nowhere to turn. Only when my faith crisis reached epic proportions was I finally able to step out and start talking with “outsiders.”

    This is a good post…I think there should be more talk about how satan isn’t any more real than the messiah.

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    • That’s some hardcore bullshit!

      In the catholic church (my former cult) satan held an extremely powerful place, and many times more emphasis is placed in his shenanigans than on god. It was taught that anyone outside the church was was possessed by satan’s demons (atheists especially), and any information that came from without was also tampered with by the devil.

      I don’t recall being fed such an extreme version of the mythology when I was a Catholic – though I was young – and we left for fundagelicalism when I was 12 – so I may be forgetting, or just didn’t understand.

      Do you have any idea of how representative your experience is of Catholicism as a whole?

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      • ratamacue0

        I got to say, my experience in Catholicism wasn’t horrendous, either. I was schooled by Carmelite nuns then Augustinian priests. And to tell you the truth, I swear the priests at my secondary school were all closet atheists. None of them seemed to take it seriously. Our school had no religious instruction, but did teach comparative religion for two years (10 and 11). Perhaps the Australian experience is different from the American, but on a whole, Catholics are far, far, far less toxic than US evangelicals.

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        • Interestingly enough, my husband went to a catholic school in my same town and did not report near the level of craziness that I had growing up. He said the priests were not pushy at all and he did not find the experience troubling at all. I think it comes down to individual families…his family were “cafeteria catholics” (picking and choosing which doctrine to comply with, like a cafeteria) and mine were devout.

          In the US I would say the catholics are every ounce as damaging as the evangelicals. They don’t recruit as much, but they have huge power in politics and in the medical field (lots of catholic hospitals) in which to push their agendas.

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      • I can tell you that there were really hard core catholic families like mine in our church, and then there were more the “cafeteria catholics,” who were so lax on doctrine they’d not have been considered Ture (TM) Catholics by my grandma’s generation. It seems our family kept the intensity of religion up over the decades instead of watering it down, like other families seemed to do. I was a True Catholic and so were all my friends and family…we weren’t allowed to hang out with the Fake Catholics. My church was about 2000 members strong; giving a guesstimate, I’d say us super-devout people made up about 50% of the congregation. The priests like to cater to our intensity because we gave the most money, however, we’d occasionally have a more liberal priest and this always caused lots of twittering amongst us. So it’s a mix of religious intensity, but overall you’ll find christianity is pretty hard-core here in the midwest.

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    • No. That is not “leveling the playing field.” we are discussing the reality of Satan. You say you believe he exists. i have provided information to the contrary. How do you respond?

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      • You have not really. Scripture plainly shows he does. There is a war and has always been. There is a war against good and evil. It was then and it is now. There are those who live among us who do not love as God commanded and will kill you flat dead for the sole reason you are not like them. They hate.

        You are not an authority on the things of God because you do not believe in God. You do not believe in the Bible and the Truths in contains. You are mocking and disingenuous. Very dangerous.

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        • I would add you do not use Scripture to prove your point. If Satan does not exist then use Scripture to prove your point. The subject is the existence of Satan, Satan of the Bible, so use the Bible to prove the Bible is wrong.

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        • The subject is the existence of Satan, Satan of the Bible, so use the Bible to prove the Bible is wrong.

          No, Leroy, the subject is the existence of Satan, period! What you’re suggesting is the equivalent of proving The Joker doesn’t exist in a Batman comic book, by using a Batman comic book, without realizing that the Batman comic book is a work of fiction, and has nothing to do with whether or not The Joker exists in real life. It’s circular reasoning, and can never prove anything.

          Logic must be a new experience for you.

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        • First. I reference scripture in my book. In fact, quite extensively, especially when discussing the so-called presence of “Satan” in the stories I mentioned. What I have presented here is Christian history — something that most “devout” Christians know little about.

          Secondly. I am not discussing good and evil. I’m discussing the non-existence of “Satan.”

          Third. I do not claim to be an authority on the things of God. Instead I rely on those who are … and that does not include the average Christian such as yourself.

          Now my question to you is this. What is YOUR evidence or “proof” that “Satan” exists? Can you offer anything to counteract what I have presented? Besides quoting scripture?

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        • Doesn’t scripture say Satan was Yhwh’s most beautiful creation? Doesn’t it say Satan was Yhwh’s greatest helper?

          So, no, Roy, by scripture, there was not always a battle between good and evil.

          Liked by 2 people

        • I will only speak to NAN. She brought me here John and out of respect and lack of time I will only be addressing her. If you want to create another cock-eyed post then go ahead and I’ll see you there, when I get done here. Done here is when I get no response from NAN in three days.

          It’s 8:56 pm and Mondays are my most busiest, it determines my whole week. Bed time tonight is early ,but Nan, I’ll be back to respond to this post tomorrow, granted you can come up with a sound Scriptural interpretation of how Satan is “imaginary”.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Oh – la de da – he will only speak to Nan! How elitist! I do hope Leroy, that you won’t mind if I post suggestions from time to time, for Nan to pass on to you —

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        • Wow. OK Nan. Scripture is the only evidence we have. My testimony of Gods saving Grace does not convict you. Thousands upon thousands of souls have a testimony where their lives have been transformed, yet none of it convicts you. So all we have is the Bible.

          In the beginning God created the Universe and everything therein and it was good. He gave the first two instructions. And they were tempted and disobey.

          We were not created as robots, We make our own decisions and our own choices. We were created to have free-will. To come to God for salvation is a choice you make on your own. No one will ever be able to make you trust Him.

          Jesus Himself testified of Satan’s existence. During His ministry, He personally faced temptation from the devil (Matthew 4:1-11), cast out demons possessing people (Luke 8:27-33), and defeated the evil one and his legion of demon angels at the cross. Christ also helped us understand the ongoing, spiritual war between God and Satan, good and evil (Isaiah 14:12-15; Luke 10:17-20).

          So yes. If someone does not believe in God, does not believe in the Creator, does not believe Christ Redeemer suffered and died to wash us clean of sin, then they also do not believe in Satan, or whatever name you want to use.

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        • In the beginning God created the Universe and everything therein and it was good.

          That passage was written in the 500’s BCE by Aaronid priests in captivity in Babylon – superstitious, scientifically-ignorant men who had no idea how the Universe came to be, and used their obscure little desert storm god, Yahweh, to fill in the gaps in their knowledge.

          Jesus Himself testified of Satan’s existence. During His ministry, He personally faced temptation from the devil (Matthew 4:1-11), cast out demons possessing people (Luke 8:27-33)

          Written by two anonymous authors in c.75 and c.85 AD, respectively, who never met Yeshua and had no first-hand information of what he said or what he did. Many neurological disorders, including the temporal lobe epilepsy that caused Paul to fall to the ground and flop around like a carp, were invariable diagnosed by those superstitious, scientifically-ignorant people, as demons.

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        • Come to think of it, how do we know that Paul wasn’t ‘possessed’ by a demon? That the voices in his head that he claimed to have heard, didn’t come from da debbil?

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        • Hello archaeopteryx1 , what is the name your parents gave you? Just curious to know to whom I’m speaking…

          I would acknowledge everything you said might be true, I don’t know. And again, everything you just said might be utter BS.

          If it got into the Bible then it was Gods will, Gods plan. What has survived for thousands of years speaks to me, shows me perfection, gives me hope. If it is not for you do not feel bad, you are not alone.

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        • Somehow I doubt that your parents named you Leroy.x10host.com, so I guess we’re stuck with the names we present.

          If it got into the Bible then it was Gods will

          So you’re saying that all of the errors and contradictions found in the Bible were placed there because your god willed it? Are you familiar with the passage, “Let god be true and every man a liar“? Paul, wasn’t it? If you believe the passage, then you must also accept that all of the anonymous authors who wrote the Bible, were liars. Rather creates a paradox, wouldn’t you say?

          I have seen no evidence that a god exists, much less your little desert storm god, Yahweh.

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        • I was named Leroy William (Last name withheld). I am a Junior. My Uncles grew up in the Depression Era, in the USA. Charles, Harry, Melvin and Leroy. Products of 1st generation Irish and Germany immigrants. Ruff sob’s the lot.

          You quote Romans 3 out-of context Mr. No Name. Interesting.

          There are no errors and contradictions in the Bible, as you say. Only twisted out-of-context lies by non-believers.

          Romans 3:1-8 teaches all of us a valuable lesson…

          The law could not save in or from sins, yet it gave the Jews advantages for obtaining salvation. Their stated ordinances, education in the knowledge of the true God and his service, and many favors shown to the children of Abraham, all were means of grace, and doubtless were made useful to the conversion of many. But especially the Scriptures were committed to them. Enjoyment of God’s word and ordinances, is the chief happiness of a people. But God’s promises are made only to believers; therefore the unbelief of some, or of many professors, cannot make this faithfulness of no effect. He will fulfill his promises to his people, and bring his threatened vengeance upon unbelievers. God’s judging the world, should for ever silence all doubting and reflections upon his justice. The wickedness and obstinate unbelief of the Jews, proved man’s need of the righteousness of God by faith, and also his justice in punishing for sin. Let us do evil, that good may come, is oftener in the heart than in the mouth of sinners; for few thus justify themselves in their wicked ways. The believer knows that duty belongs to him, and events to God; and that he must not commit any sin, or speak one falsehood, upon the hope, or even assurance, that God may thereby glorify himself. If any speak and act thus, their condemnation is just.

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    • You can’t say “entire fabrication” and hope to be taken seriously Roy. You’re smarter than that, and so is Nan and her readers. The “bible” is not just one book, as you are fully aware. The Pentateuch and Deuteronomistic history of the Nevi’im, including the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and much of Kings, is proven geopolitical myth… an origin tale. However, about half way through Kings (written in Babylon) it comes to be quite an accurate historical document which is recognised by almost all scholars.

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    • Not Nan here, Leroy, but I believe the Bible to be 80% fabrication, with 20% highly-exaggerated history, none of which lends any credence to any supernatural beings.

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  3. Leroy,
    admitted, i’m butting in, but here goes. why would anyone use LOTR to prove elves don’t really exist? same difference for using ‘scripture’ or the bible to prove satan’s non existence. fairy tales for grownups
    -KIA

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  4. Nan, LeRoy is a typical fundamentalist, whose insistence on the reality of Hell boils down to one thing – his desire for vengeance. I came up against this on another blog, and that stirred up a real hornet’s nest — me encouraging commenters to do some research in order to find out that the whole concept had been a later addition. ..they don’t want to dispel their smugly superior notions of, “they’ll get THEIRS!”. It’s a demented idea and one you’d think that most of the ‘love your neighbour’, peace-loving Christians would have a problem with.

    Yes, those far-fetched fairy tales sure keep some grown adults pissing-in-their pants frightened, don’t they?

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    • Carmen, I personally, would withhold judgment on non-believers. Vengeance, hell, the burning of the unfruitful as a fruit tree who bears no fruit. It seems harsh to me to kill forever the weeds. But it isn’t I who is Judge. I prefer to watch and see, let the dominoes fall as they fall, so to speak. Those who make their bed lie in in it.

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      • “Those who make their bed lie in it” – touch of self-righteous smugness there, Leroy?

        Absolute foolishness, as sensible people realize.

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      • Not at all Carmen, I believe what I believe and what I believe makes me, me. I didn’t make the Bible, it makes me.

        When I say I will never condemn you, only pray for you believe it. Either my wife, or I sometimes, make our bed every morning and we lie in it every night. Every decision and action has a consequence.

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  5. There’s special pleading within Leroy’s comments.

    1.) You can’t be an authority on scripture unless you are a Christian, thereby having “special knowledge”.

    2.) You must use the Bible to prove/disprove the Bible.

    The first one is used to dismiss what any of us have to say because you can only know that the Bible is Truth(TM) if you’re saved. If you don’t believe the Bible is Truth(TM) you’re not likely saved. And the second is circular reasoning to the nth degree. The Bible is Truth(TM) because it says so right there in the The Bible.

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  6. Hey nan-

    This is positively hilarious.

    Not to sound condescending, but you have zero credibility in trying to explain or dismiss that which you find incredible.

    Now watch as I’ll play the part of the prophet and expect the usual lame insults in 3……… 2…….. 1……….

    Sorry nan, you may as well try to explain the color blue to a man born blind. You have no context. You have said there is no God……….naturally it follows in your world………..’there is no devil……….’ You are out of your league.

    You may as well stay away from scripture to try to defend your absurd opinions, as they condemn your ignorance.

    Let me repeat. You have no, none, nula, nada, zippo, that’s zero credibility. Let God be true, and EVERY man a liar. (This includes women btw)

    In addition, you are in capable hands with Leroy 😉

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      • Just to say hi to nan, and to support Leroy carmen.

        Pretty simple. And here’s a shekel while I’m here. You trying to expound on the topic of Satan……….when you deny the existence of God………..is like trying to teach a baby how to tie her shoes…………..while she is still in her mothers womb…………. 😉

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        • There’s that low comprehension level again, CS – she’s expounding on the NON-existence of Satan, biblical scapegoat for your non-existing god.

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        • I’m sure you think those are profound similes, CS. Unfortunately, trying to find meaning in your word salad is as frustrating for me as picking flyshit out of pepper.

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    • “In addition, you are in capable hands with Leroy “ Bwaaaahaaaa! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard today! That’s almost as funny as saying I’m in YOUR capable hands. Oh my! I can’t stop laughing. *giggle, giggle*

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    • Let God be true, and EVERY man a liar

      CS has never figured out, as he continues to fling that scripture like monkeys fling poo, that he’s saying that the men who wrote the Bible are liars.

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    • What a giant half-wit you are CS. The Professional Theologians in the video dismiss the notion of Satan. And I am not too sure you even warrant the half.
      What possible basis do you have for believing in something that is demonstrably fiction?

      Truly, the level of absurdity you spew merely reinforces the belief that you are mentally ill.

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      • Uh huh sure, so the voices that come across the radio waves (ahem, that you cannot see) are audio hallucinations as well.

        Oh how the science of your boasting condemns your ignorance.

        But tkx for the compliment ark. 😉

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        • So am I to understand that you disagree with the professional theologians in the video,Colorstorm?
          Would that be a correct understanding of your position?

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        • How many times do I have to tell you ark- if 7,000 so called theologians, scholars, rabbis, PhDs, Dvd’s, BvD’s, etc, say Moses never lived……….I will show you 7,000 mis-informed men.

          As to Satan? Ha, your comments, this site, as well as your own site are enough proof that he is alive and well. And do tell your friend nan to read her own thread and see who in fact is a tad off the radar as far as relevance.

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        • How many times do I have to tell you ark- if 7,000 so called theologians, scholars, rabbis, PhDs, Dvd’s, BvD’s, etc, say Moses never lived……….I will show you 7,000 mis-informed men.

          That right there, Colourstorm, is precisely why I say you should have no contact whatsoever with children.

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        • Well ya know ark, I mean john (how many times do believers get ripped for butting into a conversation……….)

          after all, the law WAS given by Moses…….but thankfully, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ……..

          Must be that grace and truth thing eh, that drives the devil up a wall. The wrath of law juxtaposed against grace is slain every time.

          Just ask the professional scholars who could not as much as lift a stone……… while a woman walks away uncondemned.

          The devil is in the details.

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        • The literary character of little Moses in the bullrushes story was plagiarized from the infant story of Akkadian King Sargon I, of Mesopotamia:

          My mother conceived me in secret, she gave birth to me in concealment.
          She set me in a basket of rushes,
          She sealed the lid with tar.
          She cast me into the river, but it did not rise over me,
          The water carried me to Akki, the drawer of water.
          He lifted me out as he dipped his jar into the river,
          He took me as his son, he raised me,
          He made me his gardener (Bauer, 95).

          The literary character of Moses, the Lawgiver was plagiarized from the great Amurrite lawgiver, King Hammurabi of Mesopotamia, who wrote the famous law code, The Code of Hammurabi.

          Just ask the professional scholars who could not as much as lift a stone……… while a woman walks away uncondemned.” That story wasn’t even added to the Bible until the 4th century AD, based on a folk tale that had been floating around, and the Church decided it sounded like something Yeshua might have said. Even then, it was added to the Gospel of Luke first, where it lay for years, then moved to the Gospel of John, when it was decided that it sounded more like John’s writing style, than Luke’s.

          You really need to pull your head out – of the Bible, and read some other book once in a while.

          No devil, just details.

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        • And there , Ladies and Gentlemen is final proof that we really do have a complete nutter among us.

          Now, please everyone, talk quietly and simply back away.

          Oh , and Arch?
          Stop feeding this humongous Arse-Hat, okay.
          Once and for all, stop playing with the crazy people. Capiche?

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        • There are ordinary fundamentalists who blog on WP; those of you who have deconverted can often relate to the likes of Wally, Tricia, Insanity Citizen Tom etc.
          Then there are those one might feel inclined to feel a little sorry for perhaps. We know whose these are right?
          Then there is Colorstorm. Phew!
          Now he is either one of the Great Cons and has suckered in most of the above and is sitting there laughing himself silly or he is genuinely certifiable.

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        • Once and for all, stop playing with the crazy people. Capiche?

          But you’d be so lonely over there all alone – I like to drop by to visit your rubber room from time to time.

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        • CS … it’s MY blog thus I can say whatever I want. YOU are a visitor that I ALLOW to post so I can put as many “rules” as I want on your comments (or anyone else’s, for that matter). This is the “law” of WordPress … which you have demonstrated on your own blog.

          BTW, if, as you indicate in your latest comment, that “Satan” is alive and well, I can’t help but wonder if you can “prove” his existence any better than you can prove “God.”

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        • Well, if we can’t see them, your god can’t either, as we’re made in his image, aren’t we? What a maroon!

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        • CS has an entire blog post dedicated to just what a masculine man he is (Methinks he doth protest too much!) – I tried to support him by posting this, but he wouldn’t allow it to be published – no gratitude!

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        • I was just trying to teach him a song to sing, so everyone around him would know what a masculine man he is – sheesh!

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        • CS, if you can’t say something with substance (that is, something with cognitive content), please don’t bother to comment.

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  7. Interesting that the theologians scoff and almost laugh at the notion of Satan – and, yet in the ”God-breather Word” we have JC being Tempted by the Devil Himself?
    One has to wonder just how much dissonance these Professional God-Botherers experience or are they resigned to their hypocrisy and the absurdity of it all?

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  8. Satan brought me here, and I refuse to respond to anyone but him. Yes, I’m THAT busy. OK, Satan, it’s now 11:38AM, where are you? I’m waiting. I’m still waiting. Guess what? I’m STILL waiting! Sorry, Satan, gotta run. Monday’s are my busiest pontificating days. I’ll check back later and see if your lazy ass has responded, but since you’re so stupid and lazy, I doubt you will. You stupid, lazy dumb-dumb you. Gotta run. Yep. I gotta go cause I’m busy. Yep. It’s 11:45AM now and I’m really busy. I’m STILL busy. Yep. Gotta run. I’m too busy to just hang around here. See ya.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Well, it’s now 12:43PM. Very clearly, Satan, and all others, who aren’t on my time schedule, are rude. I’m busy, otherwise I’d extrapolate more on this. As it is, because I’m busy, I’ll simply say this: Because Satan hasn’t commented here, it proves he’s not real. Real demons, see Donald Trump, do respond when asked, even if what they say is just hateful gibberish, again, see Donald Trump. My busy schedule now takes me away for three days. I, like Jeebus before me, will return in three days time to tell you how busy I am, site the time I wrote my reply, and insult Satan for not existing.

      Like

  9. I popped back in and was interested to see a large increase in the number of comments since I looked yesterday. I thought to myself ‘ah good, Leroy has returned and has clarified his position’.

    Imagine my disappointment when when I saw it was CS instead. Still CS and I have made progress over the last week. We agreed on something over on Ark’s blog. ‘that we see things very differently’.

    Whilst I know expect poetic passages from CS that are written to try to sound profound but have no meaning. I am still genuinely bemused how the crowd of acolytes over on his blog seem to hang off his every word and seem to see it as some sort of profound utterance from a latter day prophet. Are they reading the same words as me?

    John Zande’s comment was perhaps the most profound in the latter part of this thread:

    Keep it up, Colourstorm. You do more damage to your flavour of religion than I ever could.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I am still genuinely bemused how the crowd of acolytes over on his blog seem to hang off his every word

      I think of his Liter Box as The Land of the Braindead – now we know what happened to the zombies that crawled out of the grave after the crucifiction.

      He is so proud of his avatar, a lion, and often comments on how that lion roars – maybe there really IS a devil —

      Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
      — 1 Pete 5:8

      Like

    • Whilst I know expect poetic passages from CS that are written to try to sound profound but have no meaning.

      I love that, Peter, it’s so spot on!

      Like

      • should have said ‘now’ not know’ still as I said to Arch over on Ark’s blog, reading CS’s material does tend to scramble my brain. If one spends too long trying to make sense of the incomprehensible it is bound to affect one’s clear thinking ability.

        Like

    • Peter, I do hope to see more from Leroy later. He seems to show up in the later part of his day. I just hope all the stuff that’s shown up in his absence doesn’t scare him away.

      Like

      • I noticed Leroy showed up and rolled out the argument that you never really a Christian. The justification for this is his interpretation of the Bible that it says once saved always saved.

        This sums up why in my discussions with Christians I focus on the integrity of the Bible and what else could I have done to be a Christian.

        The Calvinist argues salvation is in essence ‘God’s’ doing. Just assuming for a moment this is true, then the person who should be blamed for those who us who tried would have to be ‘God’.

        Because based on their theology we were not part of the ‘Elect’ so it did not matter what we did we could never be saved. Thus if tried to be Christians and failed, well then, what else could we have done?

        Like

  10. Leroy, as you’re undoubtedly noticed, this post has received considerable attention and comments. In order to ensure OUR conversation is separate, I’m starting a new thread.

    I wanted to comment on one of the things you wrote: Jesus Himself testified of Satan’s existence .

    As I pointed out in my posting, “Satan” became part of the Jewish belief system long before Jesus, so it is not at all surprising that he would mention him. But just because he did mention him carries no weight … for the very reason I just noted.

    There is no argument that there are several passages in the NT that reference “Satan,” but as I wrote above: Interestingly, there is no discussion of his origin; he simply “appears.” Have you ever considered that? There was no “Satan” (as he is depicted by Christians) in the Old Testament. So where did he come from? (Hint: I explained this in my post, plus it’s discussed in the video.)

    You wrote, Thousands upon thousands of souls have a testimony where their lives have been transformed, yet none of it convicts you. Do you know why? Because I was one of those thousands for several years, but today, I see things from a very different perspective. And it came through several years of research and reading and, yes, even praying.

    I know Christianity serves many people in a positive way. But these same people also live with an insidious fear that they might end up in an fiery “hell” should they allow “Satan,” a non-existent being to enter their life.

    I go back to what I wrote on John’s post: The insane see things, hear things, and sometimes talk to things that are not there. So what does that say about people who believe “Satan” exists?

    Liked by 2 people

    • The problem is you can not have it both ways. You state you were, “one of those thousands” but that is a lie. Those bought by the blood of Christ, saved from the selfish desires of this world never leave. You never had it. It can never be black AND white, or left AND right. You can not loose something you never had, or be something you never were. I’m sorry.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

      It’s real, very real. Denial does not make it imaginary. But then you do not believe the Bible, God, or any of it, so for you, Satan is a myth. Like above, you deceive yourself. You try to prove the non-existence of a thing you do not believe in, it fails, utterly. You give me no Scriptural reference to establish your belief that the (The Deceiver) is a myth.

      Your last statement cements my understanding of you, “I know Christianity serves many people in a positive way. But these same people also live with an insidious fear that they might end up in an fiery “hell” should they allow “Satan,” a non-existent being to enter their life.”

      I’ve known a lot of Christians, have graced the pews of dozens of Churches, in perhaps 12 different States here in America, Germany, Puetro Rico, Australia, and South Korea (Thanks to the US Army). Absolutely none of them gave me the impression of the “insidious fear” you mention. Just the opposite! They ALL walk in humble servitude of the Saving Grace. They worship AND adore the one who gives them eternal life, they fear NOTHING. Even death won’t separate them from the one that owns them.

      Like

      • First. “You state you were, “one of those thousands” but that is a lie.” (emphasis mine) You do NOT have the right to call me a liar. I did not attack you in any of my comments.

        Second. You do not have the authority to tell me I “never had it.” I’ve noticed this is a common refrain among Christians, but there is no justification in the Bible to validate this statement.

        Third. I’m not “denying” anything. I’m stating facts. The only argument you can possibly offer is statements from the bible, which is nothing but a collection of stories and myths. Whether you believe this to be true or not is irrelevant. Now if you want to do some research and reading outside the bible, we might be able to have an intelligent discussion.

        Fourth. Do you even know the meaning of “insidious”? It means “subtle.” Thus, all those Christians you mentioned that “graced the pews of dozens of Churches” obviously would not give any impression of fear. But believe me, it is there nevertheless … buried deep within the psyche. How do I know this? Because this is the doctrine that is taught in every church — obey Christ or you will be doomed to spend eternity in everlasting fire.

        I find it interesting that most Christians simply cannot participate in any kind of discussion when the subject counteracts their beliefs. Instead, they attack the other person and essentially tell them they don’t know what they’re talking about. I can’t help but wonder … would this be the same tactic a believer would use when having a discussion with people like Bart Ehrman or Robert Fuller or E.P. Sanders or Robert Price? Hmmmm.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Because this is the doctrine that is taught in every church — obey Christ or you will be doomed to spend eternity in everlasting fire.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Calling you out is not an attack. When someone gives a statement that is blatantly false how is one to respond? Like I said, you can not have it both ways, you are either saved by the shed blood of Christ or you are not. No one can be both, or the first, then the second- saved, then not saved.

          There is justification in the Bible for this belief, contrary to your statement. Is your name written in The Book of Life? Are you saved?

          Revelation 20:15 declares, “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” The Book of Life, in this context, is the set of names of those who will live with God forever in heaven.

          Repent of sin and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5). Once your name is written in the Book of Life, it is never erased (Revelation 3:5; Romans 8:37-39). No true believer should doubt his eternal security in Christ (John 10:28-30).

          Emphasis Gods, once you have it you never loose it!

          Your fourth point also fails. It is a twisted perverted teaching. Our damnation is of our choosing, not to do with anything Christ does. It is our choice. People who are covered by the blood don’t think of things like you do. There is no thought of what happens from a choice to BE to un-believe. Those bought by Christ simply have no reference to anything other.

          In your last paragraph I have never heard of the people mentioned. And I really have tried to be civil and respectful here. Join me at JZ’s blog and I cuss, I tell jokes, and I really try to meet each person at their own level. I am not a college educated theologian. I have to rely on spell-check all teh time. I have a wife, kids, grand-kids, a job. I try to live within my means, save and invest my money in great Company’s paying great dividends, and want to retire real soon, financially sound and free. I love you Nan. The only reason I offer discourse is love. Don’t agree with anything I believe – fine, but know one thing…I really don’t care what you believe, or that it differs 180 degrees, I LOVE YOU. You called me and that takes the kind of bravado I like. People that work for me have that. Ask them a question and they tell you what they think and they don’t really consider first if you are going to like the answer.

          9:15 pm, bed time. See you’s tomorrow. Sweet dreams……..

          Like

      • In 2012, Clint Eastwood made a fool of himself by attempting to ridicule the Obama campaign by coming onstage and beginning a tirade to an empty chair. You have spent your life, on your knees to an empty throne. I pity you, but life is full of choices, and it would appear that you’ve made yours. Now the bed you must lie in is one of your own making.

        Liked by 1 person

  11. @Leroy

    The problem is you can not have it both ways. You state you were, “one of those thousands” but that is a lie. Those bought by the blood of Christ, saved from the selfish desires of this world never leave. You never had it. It can never be black AND white, or left AND right. You can not loose something you never had, or be something you never were. I’m sorry.

    Some of the most level-headed understanding and sympathetic atheists were, at one time, vitriolic, hate-spewing fundamentalist just like you, Leroy.

    And sadly, many more were so damaged, so scarred by the fundamentalist diatribe and practices you preach that years after deconverting they ,em>still suffer.

    If you accuse former fundamentalist Christians of not being proper Christians, suggesting they were in some way shamming, then that fault most assuredly surely lies with the omnipotent deity you drool over.

    For an omnipotent deity would not only understand the trauma and doubt a believer was going through, but would also be in a position to help.
    To not do so is indicative of a callous, self-serving arsehole.

    That no such ”help” is ever forthcoming is a concrete indication that this deity is simply a figment of human invention, with heinous man-made doctrine to ensure the ”believer” stays immersed in guilt and fear.

    And it is because this deity and all the accompanying human doctrine is nothing but fiction that many people are able to escape this crippling mental bondage.

    That you are so completely indoctrinated shows in the way you behave toward Nan and ( apparently) any other former Christian.

    Where is your humility, your understanding, you patience?

    You have been taught to behave in this fashion for to lend any credence to the evidence would undermine your fundamentalism to the core.
    Which is why you ”Put on the armour of God” and leap into the fray to defend this shit time and time again.

    Why? Isn’t your god ”man enough” to do his own dirty work?
    He was there at Sodom. He sorted out the Canaanites and myriad other examples of supposed transgressions.
    And yet, these days he need the likes of you, a ( I am sorry to say) pathetic example of a Christian to demean and chastise the likes of Nan and call her a liar?

    Even if what you claim were true, who would worship such a god that insisted on such behaviour from its minions?

    All who read your comments , here and elsewhere simply have no time for the crap that comes out of your mouth.

    You really are a Class A Dickhead.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. Leroy,

    While I might have put it in a different way, Ark made several good points in his response to you … and I agree with many of them. However, I do have a few things of my own to add.

    You wrote, “Calling you out is not an attack. When someone gives a statement that is blatantly false how is one to respond? “

    Answer: In a mature and reasonable discussion, you respond by simply saying, I don’t agree with what you have presented and I’d like to offer my own POV. You don’t metaphorically stamp your feet and tell someone that what s/he has said is a lie. Further, you don’t turn around and throw out the phrase, “I love you” to hold up your envisioned duty as a Christian and to make everything hunky-dory.

    In your first response, you tell me I “never had it” (salvation, I presume) … and that I can’t lose something I never had or be something I never was. Wow. I was always taught “God” was the judge. I was unaware he had appointed you to be judge and jury as to whether a person “had it.”

    You also made this statement: “Denial does not make it imaginary.” By the same token, “faith” does not make it real.

    But the most important point I’d like to make is you have NOT shown me any evidence that “Satan” exists … which was the original topic of our discussion on John’s blog. All you’ve done to this point is call me a liar, tell me I was never a Christian, and quote scripture that was totally unrelated to the topic of discussion.

    I truly would like to hear your thoughts on why you believe “Satan” exists. Have you seen him? Have you heard him? I will even open the discussion up to allow you to include scripture that you believe validates his existence. But be advised. I have already researched and addressed the usual scriptural “evidence” that most Christians offer.

    Are you up to the challenge?

    P.S. The names I previously mentioned are highly respected and extremely knowledgeable individuals who have written many books counteracting the several fallacies of Christianity. I was curious if you would respond to them the same way as you did to me.

    Liked by 1 person

    • One more question related to “Satan” — as I previously mentioned, there is NO discussion in the NT of “Satan’s” origin. He simply “appears.” Do know why that is?

      Like

      • Nan compare these two accounts from the Bible.

        The earlier version in the Book of Samuel:

        Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)

        And the later version of the same event recorded in Chronicles:

        Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. (1 Chronicles 21:1)

        Of one fact there is universal agreement, that is that Chronicles is among the last of the Biblical books to be written, it was certainly written after Samuel.

        What do we see here? Perhaps Satan becomes a convenient stooge to whom one can assign those inconvenient acts that had previously been laid at ‘Gods’ feet. The view of their ‘God’ was changing, they were seeing that ‘God’ in less and less human terms.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yep, Peter. I address these very verses in my book They are, as you know and I know and many others know … just one of the MANY discrepancies in the bible. And Christians who want to point out that (the real) “Satan” is found in the OT will use the verse in Chronicles and completely ignore the one in Samuel.

          Like

        • But Nan I have been assured that there are no discrepancies in the Bible, indeed folk cite that as one of the proofs of its divine inspiration.

          I am sure you can predict how my discussion with Colorstorm went when I sought to explore some of these Biblical issues. He told me there was only one version of the Bible, the one set forever in heaven. When I pointed the practical reasons this could not be the case it was like he put fingers in his ears, and said ‘I can’t hear you’.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Try posting links to evidence there – they will be deleted – the big roaring lion is afraid for people to see any other side of the story than his.

          Like

  13. OK, folks. I’m signing off for today. I have a little dog that incurred a spinal injury over a year ago. She’s crippled as a result … kinda’ like someone with a stroke in that she can’t use her legs on one side very well. For the past couple of days she’s being having muscle spasms during the night so I haven’t slept very well (yes, she sleeps with me … where else?) — and it’s catching up with me this afternoon. Hopefully I’ll be back tomorrow bright-eyed and bushy-tailed to take on Leroy’s response regarding “Satan.” (You are going to respond, aren’t you Leroy?)

    C’ya all! *yawn*

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Hello Nan, this is day three and I must bow out. It usually only takes me three days to share my Truth and discern. You must agree that we can exchange ideas for a time then move on to a different subject, agreeing to disagree…

    You quote me, “”Thousands upon thousands of souls have a testimony where their lives have been transformed, yet none of it convicts you.”” You go on in your own words, “Do you know why? Because I was one of those thousands for several years, but today, I see things from a very different perspective. And it came through several years of research and reading and, yes, even praying.”

    That statement is a problem Nan. Those who have accepted Christ as Saviour, stand and live under his shed blood, are “transformed”. They put away their old selves and take on a new spirit, the Holy Spirit. They have a testimony of how Gods love has transformed their lives. You never fully surrendered to Christ or received the Holy Spirit of God. This “transformation” never happen for you.

    You heard the gospel, but never fully embraced it, you only have “intellectual” knowledge of salvation.

    ***

    As far has your exception to Satan…I would imagine most Atheist hate the idea of Hell, damnation, separation, pain eternal, or the more desirable fate of all these – incinerated into non-existence . It is unpleasant to contemplate any of this. I don’t like it.

    Looking at he Bible as a whole Literary Masterpiece the story must start from the first word in the OT and end with the last word in the NT.

    Theologians often talk about “progressive revelation” regarding the unfolding of all truth in scripture. Those living during OT times didn’t know exactly how God was going to provide salvation for his people through the sacrifice of His Son. Sure there were prophesies about Jesus, but the Jews had no idea what He really was all about. They did understand the concept of blood sacrifice, covenants, and the need for atonement. Those living under the law had small glimpses of Satan’s work, but it took the added information of revelation in the NT to give a more complete picture. As time goes forward revelation gives us a clearer concept of a fallen angel who leads a rebellion against God’s reign and works to disrupt the work of the church.

    The NT compliments the OT in this regard. Jesus’ teachings, the Apostles teachings, and Revelations gives us a clearer picture of the OT Deceiver.

    Bible.org has quite a few files on the person and work of Satan that might be of interest to you. You can find this material at:
    http://www.bible.org/topic.php?topic_id=12.

    Here is a good article on Satan in the OT:
    https://bible.org/seriespage/3-satan-s-part-god-s-perfect-plan

    In closing I would add that my prayer is that like minds remain in alliance to fight oppression from those Governments that wish to suppress the freedoms we all have a right to enjoy. The freedom to live and worship (or not worship) and prosper in peace. God bless the USA, it diverse faiths, and it’s allies.

    Roy

    Like

    • You heard the gospel, but never fully embraced it, you only have ‘intellectual’ knowledge of salvation.

      Let me translate, Nan:
      ‘You heard the gospel, but were never fully duped.’

      Shame on you!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Or dare I say, ‘you were never a true Christian’.

        That is the standard insult against those who had left the faith and is waht Leroy is really saying.

        This type of insult started in Bible times, in 1 John, the author (almost certainly not the apostle of John) addresses a split in their church and guess? He concludes that those who left were never really part of them because otherwise they would never have left.

        It would really be fascinating to read the words of the opponents in 1 John. I suspect it was a bit like the catholic/orthodox schism.

        Like

        • You are talking about the second Chapter of 1 John. They were never “part of them” because ” Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us – eternal life.” 1 John 2:22-25

          So thank you Peter and Mr. NoName. You validated my point while not knowing you did.

          Like

        • There is some consensus that 1st John and the Gospel of John were written by the same anonymous author – apparently yet another no-name. If so, he never met Yeshua and had no idea what he may have said or done, but was writing based largely on handed down hearsay. I’d hate to try and take that kind of testimony into court.

          Like

        • From the same article you referenced:
          …scholars such as Heinrich Julius Holtzmann and C. H. Dodd have maintained that the epistle and the gospel were written by different authors.

          Like

        • Wrong x1, “The epistle’s content, language and conceptual style are very similar to the Gospel of John, 2 John, and 3 John, indicating that they were written by the same author.[1] Indeed, at the end of the 19th century scholar Ernest DeWitt Burton wrote that there could be “no reasonable doubt” that 1 John and the gospel were written by the same author,[3] and Amos Wilder has said that, “Early Christian tradition and the great majority of modern scholars have agreed on the common authorship of these writings, even where the author has not been identified with the apostle John.”[4]

          Like

        • Wrong? Are you saying that the article that YOU cited, doesn’t say what I just quoted? Are you saying that I’m a liar, as you told Nan she was?

          Like

        • Your just being adversarial for to sole reason of being adversarial. It is the ultimate in disingenuous because you leave out words.

          Animosity sucks, it serves no one but the Deceiver.

          “Though the common authorship of the three epistles is still almost universally accepted, scholars such as Heinrich Julius Holtzmann and C. H. Dodd have maintained that the epistle and the gospel were written by different authors”

          See the words you leave out? It is childish and a waste of time. It is why I only waste three days on blogs like this. It’s because of people like you that drive down intellectual discourse.

          Like

        • You said, “Good thing you use, ‘some consensus’ in your comment” – it was my intention to demonstrate that ‘some’ was used to illustrate that not everyone shared that view – there was no reason to quote the entire paragraph, including data irrelevant to my point, just to make that illustration. If you find that ‘disingenuous,’ I suspect it lies in the eye of the beholder.

          Liked by 1 person

        • True, “Though the common authorship of the three epistles is still almost universally accepted.” There will always be a disinter.

          God’s word doesn’t need me to defend it. It does not need any apologies, Until there comes a time when un-believers come along and try to bastardize the message by leaving words out and inferring meanings out of context. It’s the classic Deceiver trick.

          Gods message is perfect and always will be.

          Like

        • Unless you’re been hearing voices, which wouldn’t surprise me, you have no idea what your god’s message is, because everything you know about him was written by men who claimed to know.

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        • Leroy I am wary of determining a person’s position by only hearing it as characterised by their opponent. What we can be sure about from 1 John is that there was a major split in the that Church.

          Having studied Church history splits in the church was all too common. Indeed the Christian church might well have ended up Arian but for the concerted efforts of Athanasius. A person of faith will see divine providence, perhaps so. But if ‘God’ does exist he does indeed work in mysterious ways.

          Indeed it would seem that the prayer of Jesus in John 17 that his followers might be one as a witness to the world was not overly successful:

          Liked by 1 person

  15. John Zande.

    I fill bad about snubbing you the other day here. I enjoy the back and forth we have at your blog. It satisfies me and nourishes me when I have to study the Bible to see why it is what you believe and why I find it so utterly twisted.

    I truly regret what I did. Although we seem to always disagree I wonder what it would be like to lazy around with you, sitting under a shade tree drinking a cold beer and just talking about anything but religion.

    When I get to feeling like this I also think about Christos, the one-eyed guy, and the Monkey. I really hope Chris is OK.

    Like

    • Well that did not work as planned (or as Argus would say ‘bugger’), where is Arch when I need him?

      If I blame gremlins is that the same as blaming Satan?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Why here I am, Peter —

        He doesn’t need it larger, Peter – if he has a Mac, he can hold down the Command key (the cloverleaf) and hit the + (plus) sign, and the picture will enlarge in increments each time you tap the + key – if a PC, same story, but with the Control key. (To make things smaller, Command/control and the – (minus) sign.

        Like

  16. I’m baaaaack! 🙂 My little mutt and I had a much better rest last night so I’m ready to tackle a couple of comments from my “Satan” Believer. (Note to Leroy — since I’m at the end of my “3-day limit,” I’m not expecting a response so don’t stress yourself.)

    More than anything, what I have seen in your comments is that you simply refuse to look at facts. You have become so indoctrinated by your belief system that anything contradicting what your pastor, priest, bishop, preacher, elder (take your pick) has told you is heresy and cannot be examined, much less believed. I guess I should have expected no less.

    As for your heavenly discernment that I “never fully surrendered to Christ or received the Holy Spirit of God” — quite frankly, that is bull crap! I was probably a far more dedicated Christian that you’ll ever be. But to satisfy your twisted perception of anyone who has left the faith … let’s just say that “Satan” got ahold of me. That should satisfy your holier-than-thou mindset.

    You can rest assured this conversation is over. You may now wallow in your “Literary Masterpiece” and no longer be bothered by those awful “false” concepts and realities that those nasty “atheists” believe.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I never said I had a “three-day limit” Nan., wow.

      What I said was, “It usually only takes me three days to share my Truth and discern.” We do not need to go on day-after-day on the same stupid subject.

      You then talk about your facts, my facts, both of which have been and always will be, debatable.

      No one tells me what to do or what to think. I’m an Aries Nan, look it up. I blaze my own trail. I indoctrinated my self. I picked up a book, read it, and wazzup-got-zapped, Sorry,my bad.

      I’ve known many women and was a bit reluctant to join you, being as it were. Women are to be men’s help-mates, not subservient but co-heirs to the kingdom. They are to be submissive to their husbands as husbands are submissive to Christ.

      When you make a comment like, “I was probably a far more dedicated Christian that you’ll ever be”, everyone kind of gets it too.

      Like

      • Leroy, I’ll be frank. (You be Leroy). Don’t start with the submissive shit. I can tell you VOCIFEROUSLY there isn’t one person commenting who will accept it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Stupid subject, huh?

        Whatever you meant regarding the three days, I’ve had enough. You refuse to discuss the topic at hand and instead write about your horoscope sign (BTW, doesn’t your holy book consider it a sin to consult the stars?), boast about “blazing your own trail,” and then have the nerve to make demeaning remarks about women.

        So you’re done. Any further comments from you will be deleted.

        Like

        • I had a look at Leroy’s latest comments over a JZ, he seems a touch bitter. I could not help but reflect on his description of himself, ‘Loving, forgiving and always ready to admit I DO NOT know everything’.

          Can’t say I would have picked that from the tone of his comments. I thought his comments were somewhat patronising and judgmental, but I suppose it is all in the eye of the beholder.

          What I would say is that my perspective folk like Leroy act in a way that in no way causes me to ponder whether I might have been mistaken in concluding that Christianity is a human creation.

          Liked by 1 person

        • When I was a Christian I thought horoscopes were evil and to be avoided. Nowadays I see it as another human invention.

          Like

      • x1 NoName liked my comment from last night to John Zande.

        Actually, that was an inadvertent error – I was trying to reply to Peter, and mistakenly clicked your ‘Like’ button, a mistake that I have since corrected.

        What I would ‘Like,’ however, is for you to answer my questions.

        Like

  17. OK – I have an announcement, and I want Ark, Neuronuts and Nan to all get together, and give out a big ‘Nelson Muntz’ “HA! HA!” —

    I have contracted this day for a new website, which it will likely take weeks to get ready, but the kicker is (fanfare please —): it is a WordPress product!

    Go ahead, knock your selves out!
    (PLEASE!)

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Well, there have been SO many requests – mostly along the lines of, “Why don’t you get the hell off of my blog and start your own!?

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Actually, Leroy, the stars occurred naturally as over millions of years, hydrogen gas collected as a consequence of gravitational attraction, until the very size of the mass, combined with the compression, caused the ball of gas to heat sufficiently to ignite the hydrogen, and a star was born.

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    • Clearly you don’t know any more about cosmology than you do anything else.

      Your atoms and mine all came originally from an exploding star – I can only hope that we came from different exploding stars, that would explain a lot.

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      • Your insistence on knowing my color led me to a question – could the fact that you know so little about the physics of the Universe have anything to do with the fact that you’re not green?

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  20. I’m about to buy your book right now. I should have a while ago with my mom’s past… But it’s time. I haven’t known which direction to go with my atheism. After talking to my mom, I need to “prove” there isn’t a hell nor demons.

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        • Hot temper is more like it!! Lol lol. Honestly, she’s my mom and I don’t want to hurt her. I’m sure she sees me leaving my faith as her failure and the devil tricking me

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        • As I’ve said before, “the devil” didn’t even enter the Jewish picture until after the Babylonian Captivity in 587 BCE – once the Persians conquered Babylon and released the Jews, then helped rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem, the Jews absorbed the Persian belief system of Zoroastrianism, in which a good god, Ahura Mazda battles continuously with an evil god, Angra Mainyu, for dominion of the earth – that’s also when the idea of an apocalypse began, as in Zoroastrianism, the time comes when Mazda defeats Mainyu and time ends. At the end of time, a savior-figure (a Saoshyant) will bring about a final renovation of the world in which the dead will be revived.

          True, the early Bible mentions Satan, but he is a messenger of god, not an evil entity – it is only after the Exile that Satan is merged with Angra Mainyu.

          I don’t want to clog up Nan’s blog, but I can send you a link to a video that explains the history of Satan. Oh, by the way – Satan originated with the Egyptians, and their belief in Horus, the good god, and his evil twin brother, Set. All deities in Egypt were addressed as “Lord,” much as in the Hebrew Bible, and since the word for Lord in Egyptian was “Ten,” and much as in many languages, such as Spanish, the modifier follows the noun, “Lord Set” would have been Set ten,” or Seten. It’s easy to see what little it would take to change that to Satan.
          (It might also interest you to know that when Christians say, “Amen,” they are actually swearing, unknowingly, to the Egyptian god Amen, or Amun, that what they say is true – shh, don’t tell them –)

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        • You know, of course, that you’re repeating much of what I wrote in my post … just in different words. And I also share the info about the Egyptians in my book (which she has said she’s going to purchase).

          I guess it’s good overall because we agree on the facts. 😉

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        • I guess it’s good overall because we agree on the facts. 😉

          Oh yes, it means you’re right –!

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